Questions about the AVA

[Changeup]

LIKE I said before.....my first night in the ava was the most overall enjoyment i've had ingame in quite awhile.

 now that doesn't mean i don't enjoy myself in midwar, where i normally hang out. i very much DO enjoy it in there. there's a lot of guys that are fun to fight with, and against in there.
 it doesn't mean i think i'm better than anyone(we all know how many pee38's i've wrecked), or have better SA than anyone else. i wouldn't even say it has anything to do with realism(some i guess, but not all).

 what it DOES mean, is that it is a fresh area, with a fresh challenge, and a group of great pile-its that i've not had the opportunity to fly with or against.
 if nothing else, that alone is a good reason for me to go in there. in time, i may come to not enjoy it, but i cannot predict that.

 what i do know, is that i'll probably spend more of my time in there in the near future(at least as long as i can get my pee38), and i'll probably keep doing some of my sortie write ups from runs in there.

 it's just a different kind of fun. nothing more, nothing less.

 i could relate it to archery......some of us swear by our compound bows, while others swear by their recurve bows.

+1 for realism....Im not sure but I don't think WWII pile its had icons with distance...just saying! lol  Hammer away!!!

[Shuffler]

He does have a point.

Not really.

Even playing field.

You can get icons in all the other arenas.

I don't fly DA Lake because I think the setup is so easy mode. I have no idea why it is even in an arena called the Dueling Arena. Some folks will fly there and complain all day about it instead of finding an arena that more suits their idea of the game.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[waystin2]

Not really.

Even playing field.

You can get icons in all the other arenas.

I don't fly DA Lake because I think the setup is so easy mode. I have no idea why it is even in an arena called the Dueling Arena. Some folks will fly there and complain all day about it instead of finding an arena that more suits their idea of the game.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

LOL, still trying to incorporate the horse comment into this discussion.     Therein lies the old problem and attitude with the AVA to begin with.  Well it's not for you...  The truth is, it is for every paying subscriber, so why not at least respond to the the information that Captain1MA asked for.  The response I received was, well it's probably not for you.  This sounds an awful lot like the personal playground we had before.   Let me say this, I am in no way impuning Capt or yourself, just discussing here Shuff.  I will continue to try it off and on, but I feel that adding icons would improve it.  Having enemy icons was not the reason it was a ghost town, nor is it totally responsible for it's revival.  It is the people and their behavior.

 

Way

[Changeup]

LOL, still trying to incorporate the horse comment into this discussion.     Therein lies the old problem and attitude with the AVA to begin with.  Well it's not for you...  The truth is, it is for every paying subscriber, so why not at least respond to the the information that Captain1MA asked for.  The response I received was, well it's probably not for you.  This sounds an awful lot like the personal playground we had before.   Let me say this, I am in no way impuning Capt or yourself, just discussing here Shuff.  I will continue to try it off and on, but I feel that adding icons would improve it.  Having enemy icons was not the reason it was a ghost town, nor is it totally responsible for it's revival.  It is the people and their behavior.

 

Way

Hmmmm, this may be more difficult than I originally suspected.  Jaeger, I will get back to you....lol.

Way, about that talk we were going to have later.........

[waystin2]

Hmmmm, this may be more difficult than I originally suspected.  Jaeger, I will get back to you....lol.

Way, about that talk we were going to have later.........

My point was that some say the icons are off because it ups the "immersion".  What if folks do not want their "immersion" upped?  Why not make it an option?  Not that difficult to do brother Change.  I feel it has more to do with flying styles and preferences rather than immersion as stated.

[CAP1]

the icons ARE an option. we all have the option to optionally go to another optional arena and optionally fly with icons on. or in those arenas we can option to turn them off.

 

[Changeup]

My point was that some say the icons are off because it ups the "immersion".  What if folks do not want their "immersion" upped?  Why not make it an option?  Not that difficult to do brother Change.  I feel it has more to do with flying styles and preferences rather than immersion as stated.

Fair enough my friend...but...(there's always a butt and its usually me) why not change "immersion" to "historically and technologically more accurate"?  See, thinking of it this way enables everyone that is willing to stay with it long enough to get used to have an actual alibi when getting torched often, like me!  Besides, I can't get my grandfather's comment out of my head and I quote, "What the hell is that red thing doing giving you the range?  That sh&t didnt happen in real life!!!....why in the world do ALL of the bad guys have red distance things around them??? Do you have a red distance thing around you????  (Yes, gramps I do), well hell, turn it off or you're gonna die faster!!! because they are ALL above you!!!.....you're gonna be real crappy at this game aren't you" (Yes gramps...I am real crappy at this game)

 

Changeup

[715]

Questions:

1. what would it take for you or your squad to frequent the AVA 1 night or more a week?

2. what do you like about the AVA, if anything? (Please speak from experience)

3. what do you dislike about the AVA, if anything? (again, please speak from experience)

1. Not in a squad, but it would take having planes I want to fly available more often (for example: if Spits participated in the historical battle being modeled, they should be included- the "designer" shouldn't leave them out solely because he doesn't like them or thinks a K/D=0.9 plane is "easymode").

2. Historical matchups and the current icon settings.  The icon settings totally change the fight.  For example, it is possible to extend from a bad situation even in a slow plane by diving to the deck and making use of your camouflage.  Having dot dar available makes it easy to find the enemy and friendly icons mean you do not have to identify plane types visually to know what's enemy and what's not.  It does, I admit, place people with poor graphics systems or bad eyesight at a disadvantage, especially when trying to follow enemy below you against the terrain.  However, I personally think it increases the immersion by requiring SA and increasing uncertainty.  (The argument "hey, you want immersion, turn your icons off while I leave mine on" is specious as it creates a grossly unbalanced situation, much more unbalanced than graphical limitations cause with no icons.) 

3. Not being able to fly a plane I like.  Also, there is little coordination and it is more like a dueling arena; I'd enjoy it more if people ran missions.  In the past the entire reason I stayed away was the attitude problem, but I haven't really seen any of that lately.

[gyrene81]

My point was that some say the icons are off because it ups the "immersion".  What if folks do not want their "immersion" upped?  Why not make it an option?  Not that difficult to do brother Change.  I feel it has more to do with flying styles and preferences rather than immersion as stated.

For those who do not want their immersion upped, we have the DA, 2 late war, 1 mid war, 1 early and 3 WWI arenas, that is not to mention the scenarios, FSO, Wednesday snapshots and the SEC. Not everyone participates in all of them, and that is their option. If you want battles between just 2 sides and limited plane sets with enemy icons on, for a change of pace, there is ample opportunity. There are more choices available to the all icons on masses than there are for the no enemy icons few, why try and make us change the one option that started out as an experiment and created a different experience and has revitalized the game for some?

[bustr]

Gyrene and AvA Staff,

From reading the posts and responses to the no-Icon mode in the AvA, I think it will have to be accepted as some players love it and others don't find it to help them achive what motivates them to play the game as a pilot. The red Icon is something core to the general playability of the game. Wheather it's the players PC, their eyes, unwillingness to make the effort to see rapidly moving tiny silouetts, or whatever. Some players will never like playing in that mode. I used to have a freind who could not play Doom. The rapidly changing textures in the walls made him throw up after 15 minutes. I liked the game and played it for hours.

Personaly I like the no-Icon mode. When you ask people to take a survey, they assume a freedom from sensorship if they disagree with you. It's also to be expected that the manner of how they deliver thier disagreement with you might make you want to retort in defense. Since you gents are in control of the AvA, enjoy what you have achived and make the best of those who like your arena. If no-Icon mode is a passing thing. The numbers will dry up. If it's a winner, just accept some players won't show up for your parties.

At least you are trying to present a difference in the AvA even if it's by changing an expected standard to the game. Bet you guys didn't relaise just how important that one change is to the entire community.

[FiLtH]

Well said Bustr.

[CAP1]

Gyrene and AvA Staff,

From reading the posts and responses to the no-Icon mode in the AvA, I think it will have to be accepted as some players love it and others don't find it to help them achive what motivates them to play the game as a pilot. The red Icon is something core to the general playability of the game. Wheather it's the players PC, their eyes, unwillingness to make the effort to see rapidly moving tiny silouetts, or whatever. Some players will never like playing in that mode. I used to have a freind who could not play Doom. The rapidly changing textures in the walls made him throw up after 15 minutes. I liked the game and played it for hours.

Personaly I like the no-Icon mode. When you ask people to take a survey, they assume a freedom from sensorship if they disagree with you. It's also to be expected that the manner of how they deliver thier disagreement with you might make you want to retort in defense. Since you gents are in control of the AvA, enjoy what you have achived and make the best of those who like your arena. If no-Icon mode is a passing thing. The numbers will dry up. If it's a winner, just accept some players won't show up for your parties.

At least you are trying to present a difference in the AvA even if it's by changing an expected standard to the game. Bet you guys didn't relaise just how important that one change is to the entire community.

i was in there tonight. i don't feel well, so i was playing with ground attack mode. shifty jumped me. i had absolutley no trouble tracking him. all i had to do was look out the back window of my pee38 o doom. he was always right there. 

[Grape]

I had a blast in there tonight...got one kill after being shot down like 10 times and still had fun. Icons or not, its who you fly with and against that makes it fun.

[Krusty]

LOL he tries to bring it back to "technically more accurate and historical" -- lol!

It's been proven mathematically, with real world examples, with optical discussions, that flying without icons is a vastly reduced level of details compared to what the human eyeball can make out in real life. Pretending you are being "realistic" is a shout in the face of what you see every day.

Sorry, you guys all lost that argument so many times that folks stopped telling you how wrong you were when you kept saying "nuh-uh!!" -- and it keeps creeping back into these AvA threads. It's that "attitude" that everyone talks about and dislikes...


"No icons are realistic, they're accurate, you suck if you don't like them, they make you a better more realistic pile-it!" <-- all of these comments keep coming up and have been proven wrong by so many people that know so much more than the folks plugging their ears and humming.


I get the idea of trying something new. Like say F3 mode in the AvA. Like an arena with stall limiter forced on, etc. It's good once in a while but the pretentious part is the airs you put on about these "no icons" settings. You're just stroking your own egoes and nobody wants to play with you when you get like this. One thing that would get me into the AvA a bit more* (and I've been burned many times) is a bit more humility in those running the place.


Filth was quite on the nose with his reply in the other thread. Very well said and articulated, Filth!


EDIT: * = icons or no

[waystin2]

For those who do not want their immersion upped, we have the DA, 2 late war, 1 mid war, 1 early and 3 WWI arenas, that is not to mention the scenarios, FSO, Wednesday snapshots and the SEC. Not everyone participates in all of them, and that is their option. If you want battles between just 2 sides and limited plane sets with enemy icons on, for a change of pace, there is ample opportunity. There are more choices available to the all icons on masses than there are for the no enemy icons few, why try and make us change the one option that started out as an experiment and created a different experience and has revitalized the game for some?

Hello Gyrene,

It was never a demand to change. It was a direct response to the Captain, as this is what he was after.  I can and will adjust and frequent the AVA on occasion as a distraction to the normal MA's.  However, I must say that making it an option, does not infringe on anyone but the person choosing to exercise it.  Twas just a suggestion. I will argue that it is not the icon change that revitalized the AVA.  It's the people like Captain1MA and folks who frequent it that creates an atmosphere you want to return to.

 

Way