Author Topic: Beating a dead horse (Read 4684 times)

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2001, 04:36:00 PM »

I sure know that if RWY is taking a burst at the n1k hehe THEY are gonna be GOOD bursts!

your an excellent shot.

What this translates into is... the amount of lead that rwy is putting into that n1k is enuff to bring down at least 2 normal planes

so something may be uber

Soda · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2001, 05:19:00 PM »

Why does everyone still consider perking an airplane as some sort of death chant... the C-Hog is far from dead. It mearly helped thin the herd a bit and made C-Hog pilots have a little more caution and not just HO everything that moves. 8 perk points ain't squat, it's not like risking 70 in a tempest since you can earn 8 perkies in 3 kills if you land them (in some planes).

Just my opinion from my observations and whatever numbers have been posted on the use of the C-Hog. You never hear "Waaaa, all I see are C-hogs and they kill me" anymore, nor are there any shortage of them in the MA.

On top of that, perking the C-Hog dropped my BBS reading down a bunch since there weren't 10 threads a day on some "damn C-Hog killed me" topic. Bummer that the "damn N1K killed me" thread count has picked up......

-Soda

jihad · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2001, 05:20:00 PM »

The 190A series also seems to be rather frail, it will lose its engine a lot more readily than any other plane in the arena (with the possible exception of the P38).

The Yak 9U is just as bad about losing the engine - and seems to have a tail of glass like the P38.

SOB · « **Reply #18 on:** July 13, 2001, 05:22:00 PM »

Urchin, I like your argument, really. You make no qualms about it...you don't like the plane and you have a tough time fighting it and that's why you want it perked. I would suggest talking to St. Santa. When I flew the N1K exclusively, the was the LuftWaffle who most consistantly handed my arse to me!

Deez, after reading your post, I'm reminded of weekend drives back home in Wisconsin with the windows down, as you'd drive past a dairy farm and smell something similar to what you just posted.

1 micro burst from the cannons will tear a b17 in half
If you aim effectively at a B17s wing or wingstem, you can make fairly short work of them if your aim is good. Remember, those are 4 20mm cannons coming in at convergence there. If you aim directly at the center, you won't have nearly as much success.

Along with all these amazing feats, it Turns like a spit V and zero.
Simply not true. If you meet a competent pilot in a Spit V or a Zeke while you're flying a Niki, you'd best turn tail and run.

has the ability to still manouver at 50mph(EFFECTIVELY)
Did you model the Niki in X-plane and found that it does this there? Because, it doesn't do it in AH.

I thought this thing was a modified zero with bigger engine !? are'nt we talkin almost fabric here?
No, it wasn't a modified Zero. I haven't noticed that it consistantly takes more damage to down one than any other fighter.

The main thing to realize is that Pyro is looking into inaccuracies in the N1K's flight model, so it really doesn't matter how it performs now.

Regardless of how it turns out, those of you who continue to look down your nose at guys who decide to fly certain planes really aren't worth listening to anyway. Continue to think that whatever plane you fly makes you elite and special, and the rest of us will continue having fun.

SOB

Yeager · « **Reply #19 on:** July 13, 2001, 05:28:00 PM »

In order for a perk system to be truly functional every single unit must be perked to some value.

You spit dweebs should pay a price just as surely as the poor decrepid gameboyz in their Chogs. P51s, Fw190s, Yaks, B17s, PNZRs...everything has a value relative to everything else.

The best perk system will work in this manner. I sense this is the way it will have to go eventually or it just wont be worth much more than it is (not much).

What about the newbies? How will they manage to build any value if they cant take off (let alone bring guns to bare)?

Simple, send the dweebs to the training arena where there are no perks (this conecpt has even extra merit as it might entice the nintendo crowd to go there as well...wait a minute, then there wouldnt hardly be anyone left in the MA LMAO

But I digress....Once the dweeblets have their pubic hairs sprouting they can venture into the place where the men with balls play.

zzzzzzzz

Y

NUTTZ · « **Reply #20 on:** July 13, 2001, 05:45:00 PM »

Damn near the slowest plane in AH, zeke,Ki,spit, yak all out turn it, cannons fire too slow, most planes can scissor threw the burst, climb rate is horrible.

The problem is 1 vs. 1 it is an over all great killing machine, thats the point Most fights in WW2 were not 1 vs 1, but flights against flights, thats where the fights are won, with good wingman tactics. 1 vs 1 Niki will shine.

I fly the N1k2 alot, the flight characteristics is best suited for MY gameplaying style, I won't fly a plane for YOUR satifation, I fly for MY satifaction. Don't take away my fun. Perk the N1k2 and the spit La-7 is next and after that.......

IF, and a big IF the N1k2 FM is wrong, correct it, I will adapt and overcome. Don't perk one of the few IJN planes in the game.

Face it, the N1k2 was a great plane.

Nuff said...

NUTTZ

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #21 on:** July 13, 2001, 06:19:00 PM »

hehe For all the Spit/n1k flyers that complain or to better term it... Speak on behalf of how much they like to fly what they like to fly... and that the aircraft they choose Just happens to be a Spit/n1k.

I say YOU FLY an easy mode plane

Im not being some elitist dork, but Id rather fly somehthing that takes more then just yank bank and requires just a bit more pilot intervetion to win.

I have seen a few films of really good pilots in inferior turning/fast planes destroy turners with ease. They are the really good flyers because they took acm to the highest level and beat the better suited aircraft with an inferior one.

Drex.. comes to mind

I have never seen a rolling planeset before, but from what it sounds like by my reading, it would surely clear alot of this n1k/later war planes issue. If we all had a type of Historical matchup for a Main arena that could clear alot of this up to but yeah whatver hehe dunno if thats gonna happen.. anyway...

yeah I agree with whoever said that the n1k is how it is right now.. and it shouldnt matter because its supposed to be fixed.(hehe "nutered") SP?

sax · « **Reply #22 on:** July 13, 2001, 07:21:00 PM »

Leave the planes alone and perk the cv flak.

Sax

Urchin · « **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2001, 08:35:00 PM »

Hehe, SOB, I never did make any bones about the fact that basically I want it perked because I can't handle it, did I? I try to be as honest as I possibly can, whenever I possibly can- and yes, the fact that it is such a common plane makes it even worse. As a for instance- I have a tough time with P47s as well, when I am flying my 190 or 109- because the capabilities of the planes are fairly similar. But when the 47 shoots me down, I think "Damn, that guy was good"- not, man.. the P47 needs to be perked. I wish I could say the same thing about the Niki, but I can't.

NUTTZ- I am not trying to "ruin anybodies fun". I am sorry that you see it that way. But as it stands now, the Niki is so much superior to most of the planes in the set that it either A. needs to be perked, or B. needs to be "toned-down". I am in favor of toning it down if the performance was not historically what it is like in the game- however, if it really WAS this good in real life, I think toning it down for the sake of gameplay is wrong. In that case, I think the right thing to do would be to make it a reasonably cheap perk, to cut down on the number of people flying it. Don't get me wrong, I know the 109 was not a great turning plane, I'm not asking to be able to turnfight with the Niki. What I am asking for is the opportunity to engage more than 60% of the planes that I see.

Anyways, this last part is to SOB and Deez-

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1 micro burst from the cannons will tear a b17 in half

If you aim effectively at a B17s wing or wingstem, you can make fairly short work of them if your aim is good. Remember, those are 4 20mm cannons coming in at convergence there. If you aim directly at the center, you won't have nearly as much success.

Along with all these amazing feats, it Turns like a spit V and zero.

Simply not true. If you meet a competent pilot in a Spit V or a Zeke while you're flying a Niki, you'd best turn tail and run.

has the ability to still manouver at 50mph(EFFECTIVELY)

Did you model the Niki in X-plane and found that it does this there? Because, it doesn't do it in AH.

I thought this thing was a modified zero with bigger engine !? are'nt we talkin almost fabric here?

No, it wasn't a modified Zero. I haven't noticed that it consistantly takes more damage to down one than any other fighter.

Point 1- I don't believe that the cannons on the Niki are any better than any other cannons in the game. In fact, I don't even have a problem with the much maligned LW cannons- if you set your convergence right you can hit accurately out to about d500.

Point 2- No, it doesn't turn like a Spit or Zeke, but it DOES outturn everything else in the arena, as far as I know. Nuttz said that the Yak and Ki can outturn it.. I honestly do not think that is accurate. I say this because I can outturn a Yak or a Ki in a 109F4- and a Niki can outturn me.

Point 3- I think the 50mph example is a slight exageration, but it does have an extremely low stall speed, maybe 75-80mph. It is VERY difficult to rope-a-dope Nikis, because they can hang on the prop for so long.

Point 4- Covered that earlier, I've never noticed it taking any more damage than any other plane, when I get in a position to kill them I usually can.

SOB · « **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2001, 08:53:00 PM »

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Originally posted by Urchin:
Hehe, SOB, I never did make any bones about the fact that basically I want it perked because I can't handle it, did I

Not at all, and I like it!

Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but some (Deez) choose to mask it with other arguments and exaggerations, which annoys me.

You're right about the low nose-over speed and the hanging on the prop. One tip for you tho' (and this is from my experience flying the thing), when the Niki is hanging on it's prop like that, it's prime meat. Nothing it does at that point will be fast, they just have to slowly move the stick and give some rudder to bring the nose down and dive for some speed. They can spray and maybe get a lucky shot at that point, but accurate aiming is pretty much out of the question. If you can rope 'em to that point and hold until they start to nose over, they're yours. And I was serious about talking to St. Santa...that bastard had my number every time.

Oh, and to Deez. I was countering your obviously false statements and it has nothing to do with my choice of aircraft. My main ride of choice now is the P51B, which makes me no more or less a pilot than someone who flies a N1K or any other plane. It's my horrible gunnery and often amusing ACM that makes me less of a pilot than most.

SOB

[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: SOB ]

SOB · « **Reply #25 on:** July 13, 2001, 08:56:00 PM »

-double post-

[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: SOB ]

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #26 on:** July 13, 2001, 09:17:00 PM »

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Originally posted by Tuomio:
I tried n1k for several sorties and you really cant lose a 1vs1 fight in it. If the opponent is cautious and wise, you still can bore him with your break turns, which will soon get him in making mistakes.
Only the n1k vs n1k fights get tough, but this is with every plane.

In a turnfight with pilots of equal skill, a Spit V will eat the N1K for breakfast, lunch, and dinner... then go back for seconds.

-- Todd/DMF

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #27 on:** July 13, 2001, 11:05:00 PM »

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I have out flown good n1k pilots with a 51 or even a spit<--another easy mode plane , with lead/lag turns, vertical flight, as well as overall better E managment.

LOL! So this is a qualifier for the babble about to come?

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For the most part, People go and fly only planes that are simple to fly in. Expamples are the Spits/n1k/ and sometimes zeros.

Did this somehow progress into a "turn fighters are too easy" argument? You really threw the Zeke in there? Are you serious?

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People that fly planes like the P47, P51, 190A8 and 109's are actually earning more of thier kills because it takes more of a thought-out way of flying IMO.

LOL AGAIN! Some of the fastest aircrafts in the arena. Granted, the 109's aren't all fast.. but the G-10 sure is. The A-8 is the second fastest 190... and the P-51? You have zero argument there. You are simply saying that BnZ is the only real way to fight... and anyone that turns is flying in easymode.

bah

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The Fight is almost never on your terms in aircraft like these unless YOU make it that way.

LOL! Remember.. you had the P-51 and 109G-10 in there. Those two planes are very easy to dictate terms with. Oh, wait.. are you saying that someone else must fly against you in a manner that allows you to use your plane's strengths against them? Or are you saying that any plane that can turn to avoid a fast plane should be perked?

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In contrast, the n1k Has some super power to always wind up climbing to almost anything given close E states, has the ability to still manouver at 50mph(EFFECTIVELY) as well as regain energy(in the form of speed) as fast as almost anything. Along with all these amazing feats, it Turns like a spit V and zero.

LOL! Rope-a-dope on N1K2s is one of my favorite tricks. Bring on that ultimate E. Of course, turning inside of an N1K2 that is going to fast and nailing him with a decent lead shot from my F6F is a kick too. Nothing like going up against pilots that actually believe the babble you are spewing here. Of course, they find out the hard way just how wrong you are.

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Its simple to fly, the Fight is almost always on YOUR terms if your in a n1k, and 1 micro burst from the cannons will tear a b17 in half. SO HERE is the reasonong behind why this thing is flown so much.

The N1K2 has the 14th best record against armed bombers (C-47 not included). Please... tell me again how uber it is. I love to hear these tall tails.

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I never fly it,

Yet, you know every aspect of its abilities. Every neuance of its handling, gunnery and stall performance. Amazing.

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I would rather Fly and fight in somthing that is outclassed in every respect to know that I actually won the battle, not the PLANE, (in the case a n1k)

Point 1:

I've never had any problem against an aircraft that was just sitting on the runway doing nothing... no matter how it was modeled. I've only had problems against planes that were actually being flown. The pilot does the killing.... not the plane.

Point 2:

If you feel it is necessary to fly at a disadvantage to satisfy your own ego then feel free. I mean... don't fly a plane because you like it, or because its been your favorite since you were a child, or because it suits your style. Instead, fly a plane that sucks for the simple reason that you can come here and insult anyone that flies a better plane. Of course, the convenient part is that you'll always have an excuse when you get killed.

Oh.. wait... you fly the P-51D. What were you saying about flying something that is outclassed in every respect?

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Another thing I notice about the n1k is that IT takes a Massive amount of damage before it is taken down. WTF? I thought this thing was a modified zero with bigger engine !? are'nt we talkin almost fabric here?

Can't say I've noticed that... and I'm using the same armament as you. Guess its just a matter of perspective there. The perspective being wether your intentions are to come here and complain about the uberness of a plane, or you simply look forward to shooting the next one down.

--------------------

The N1K2 is a very good aircraft. It is one of, if not the best in the arena. That's it.

Hating it because its one of the best in the arena is petty. Insulting the people that fly it because its one of the best in the arena is petty. Feeling that what you fly and how you fly it makes you better than someone else is egotistical. You are fitting each of those deezcamp.

Urchin, I undestand your frustration... I have the same difficulties with the La-7 at times. This post is directed at people that simply feel the need to insult people for flying a plane type, then back up the insults with false statements.

AKDejaVu

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #28 on:** July 13, 2001, 11:30:00 PM »

hehe ak =) Yeah I must be wrong theres NOTHING wrong with the N1k lol, I guess Hitech is making a mistake by looking into fixing it...

lol whatever, think what your going to think, live how your going to live, and feel what your going to feel lol(wait according to many feel is not an option lol) ... Theres no good talking to many people here. And again.. There Must BE NOTHING wrong with the n1k

you can keep thinking that

Ill just continue flying the planes that take more thought and planning in order to fly effectively in all situations

Others can fly endless unrealistic 200 foot off the ground quake style furballs in spits and n1ks

to be realistic

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #29 on:** July 14, 2001, 12:39:00 AM »

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hehe ak =) Yeah I must be wrong theres NOTHING wrong with the N1k lol, I guess Hitech is making a mistake by looking into fixing it...

No.. I never said there was nothing wrong with it. Then.. I never said EVERYTHING was wrong with it either.

This incessant need to villify a plane is getting downright rediculous. The belief is it retains E a tad bit too well. I'm missing where you mentioned squat about that in your post. Nope, instead you talk about its uber cannons "1 micro burst from the cannons will tear a b17 in half'... its low speed handling "has the ability to still manouver at 50mph(EFFECTIVELY)" and also mention the "easy mode" of two other planes that aren't being looked into.

Basically... you are full of toejam.

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Ill just continue flying the planes that take more thought and planning in order to fly effectively in all situations

Ah.. yes.. now the P-51 is becoming the thinking man's plane.

A word of advice... avoid any aircraft that requires thought to fly. You don't meet the minimum requirements.

AKDejaVu