Author Topic: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!  (Read 24519 times)

Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #300 on: November 24, 2010, 11:21:08 PM »
The bottom line is what you said...you may not "get it" but hundreds of thousands of folks play WoW, EQ2 and Aionm while we struggle to keep our numbers stable.....and AW was one of the first true online games!  Its too bad really....

WoW and EQ2 are letting people play for free now.  EQ numbers were going down ten years ago while I was playing.

I guess alot aren't "getting it" there either.

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Offline Delirium

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #301 on: November 24, 2010, 11:52:03 PM »
but too few players have such a burning interest for air combat that they will endure being shot down again and again, having a k/d of 0.1 or less for many months or years.  The "war" is just one of several carrots which they can nibble while getting better.

<SNIP>

People like you and me that have read countless books on that topic for years or decades before touching the joystick for the first time are getting rarer.


Lusche nailed it... in the old days, when AirWarrior were around, it was literally the only decent online game unless you wanted to play on MUDs with anscii text format. Now, games like Aces High needs to compete with other online games that have the carrot and stick routine down to a science. Not to mention, a growing number of possible players on Aces High don't have PCs at all, but are using a Wii/Playstation/XBox.

First off, Aces High needs a fun time sink to keep players interested while they improve. Perks could be the factor here, but after 200 perk points any further perk gains are a waste of time. The Combat Arena with a story line could of been the time sink, but HTC aren't developing it anymore.

New players, unless they grew up on aviation stories or movies, would rather enjoy the camaraderie from joining a big squad (not to mention safety). In the past, these squads (small and large) would use their teamwork to take a base, either by hording it or NOEing it. They can't NOE it anymore because half of their guys can't stay under 500 feet, much less 65 feet. Taking the base with 15 or less guys is risky, taking more lessens the risk but isn't much fun for either side. These base taking squads aren't about furballing, they are about teamwork (or hording and calling it teamwork) and could care less if they improve as an individual.

For me, Aces High is like golf. The only scorecard I have is the one that carry within. Unfortunately, not everyone feels this way and they still want their money's worth inside Aces High.
-------------------------
If I was in charge, I would make the following changes;

1. Increase radar height to 175 feet over land, 100 feet over water and disable auto level below 300 AGL/ASL.

2. Change towns to make ack mannable, but still have it auto fire at aircraft or tank in visual range only (not behind hedges, etc). Also have the ack return quicker after being destroyed, this includes airfields.

3. Keep the hardness and the downtime on towns but allow troops dropped BEFORE the town is 'flat' to destroy X number of buildings and to keep them down longer.

4. Put the person's name on the system who dropped the troops to capture a town.  ie SYSTEM: ArmChairGeneral has captured A35 with a M3.

5. Start a zone eny system. Have it take effect after more than 12 aircraft have been launched. So, after you launch 12 guys from a single airfield, you can't launch anymore until the other side has launched some in the area. This way, no more than a 12 man abundance of fighters can be in one area at one time unless they launch from very far away.

6. Start several wind layers and cloud layers to dissuade high alt buffs.

7. Start using the complex bomb site.
---------------

I'm not entirely unsympathetic, but the 'W1N Z3 W@R' people in the game shouldn't get what they want either or they will be bored to tears from a lack of a challenge.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 11:59:56 PM by Delirium »
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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #302 on: November 25, 2010, 06:37:43 AM »
Lusche nailed it...

....I'm not entirely unsympathetic, but the 'W1N Z3 W@R' people in the game shouldn't get what they want either or they will be bored to tears from a lack of a challenge.

I agree.

I believe the game has given players too much of an option of being able to conduct different things in this game, a good example is noe missions, HT obviously has seen the damage that this has done by being as liberal with the radar settings as they were and the repercussions of tyring to expand or appease to those that are not up for a challenge or the WOW crowd.

Somehow in the minds of these players the carrot has become the meal.  The meat of this game is air combat no matter how you slice it this Thanksgiving day.  

At some point, common sense will have to trump profit or the meaning of the game will be lost forever or even the game itself as we know it.


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Offline NCLawman

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #303 on: November 25, 2010, 07:58:57 AM »
I agree.

I believe the game has given players too much of an option of being able to conduct different things in this game, a good example is noe missions, HT obviously has seen the damage that this has done by being as liberal with the radar settings as they were and the repercussions of tyring to expand or appease to those that are not up for a challenge or the WOW crowd.

Somehow in the minds of these players the carrot has become the meal.  The meat of this game is air combat no matter how you slice it this Thanksgiving day.  

At some point, common sense will have to trump profit or the meaning of the game will be lost forever or even the game itself as we know it.

Okay, that's it!!!!   Dads nailed it and this thread can be closed.  HTC, take lesson.  Remove all buildings, towns, city's, strats, ships, boats, and GVs.  In fact, we don't even need a ground.  Just put the bases 'floating' in the air at 10K.  We can take off and fly around and engage in our meat-Air Combat.  The problem has been solved.  Well Done Dads and Del.    :aok


If one is a 'fighter' purist, why is it so hard to accept that other people have different opinions and must be condescending?  If HTC wanted this game to be solely about the one-v-one dogfight, he would not have put all the 'extras' in the game.  AH would have been created like the WWI arena, but with P51s and 190s.  If one is solely a fighter pursist, what harm is there to you if others choose to engage in other parts of the game that HTC provided?  Why do YOU THINK YOUR OPINION is correct.  An opinion is just that an OPINION.  There is no right or wrong.

Having said that, I agree that the point of the game is combat.  The part of the game I enjoy is combat (air or ground).  I love a good dogfight as much as the next guy (though admittedly, I am not exceptionally good - I hold my own, but against the truly good sticks, I am easy meat).  That also having been said, what's wrong with one side or the other having the opportunity to capture land as evidence of the victorious combat?

The problem, as has been explained previously, is that the town has become so monstrous that it requires too many people to put it in a capture-able position.  As such, a horde is inevitable and eventually leads to vulching (both of which are suck situations).  The system is setup such that the horde has to vulch to even keep one plane from upping, because after the combat to control the skies (in theory) has been won, a single L-gay ups, HOs at everything in site to go and shoot the goon on the ground or a troop from the air.  And, you would be correct that the vulch is NOT combat and as I said, it is a suck situation.  But the town settings are such that the game has digressed to hordes and vulches to be able to effect a capture.

Individual combat is an individual accomplishment.  We take pride and satisfaction in defeating the opposite individual.  The base capture is a part of the collective/team accomplishment.  Being able to bring back a base scalp to the team represents the team win.  Why is that so hard to understand?   I don't think anyone is advocating that we all roll every undefended base.  What would the point of that be?  The point many are trying to make is that the combat (air and land) needs to promote some discernible show of victory.  And, the towns/bases need to promote combat.  Right now, defense is so overwhelming, that the offense must bring the 'horde'.  Lessen the of-balance in defense, and set up the bases to promote multiple 10-15 person fights all over the map rather than requiring 35 people at one location.  How that can be accomplished, I don't know --- but I do agree that we need to search for it.


 :salute      :cheers:   

Happy Thanksgiving to all (includes the Winz the Warz, 1v1s, horders, tankers, bombers, tool-shedders, hanger-bangers, AvAers, EWer, LWer, MWers, furzballers, HOer's, runners, BnZers, Alt-monkeys, My-way-or-no-way-ers, air-combat the rest of you suck-ers, and especially to HTC)  I hope I didn't leave anyone out - please accept my apologies if I failed to name your group.    :cheers:
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Offline Ghastly

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #304 on: November 25, 2010, 08:10:00 AM »
Delirium, one of the issues that AH faces that other MMORG's tend not to is that there is no segregation between the newest recruit and the 20 year vet of online combat flight sims.  So it's very challenging to balance how difficult things should be. While you and many of the more experienced players would find changes such as those you describe challenging, the raw recruit is going to have a different word for it - Impossible.  In WOW you start out fighting bunnies in an area protected from other players - in AH your first engagement might well be a 20 year vet.

Drediock, I have almost the same thing to say to you - except that where Delirium is proposing increased difficult, you are proposing increased complexity - which to the less experienced player, is the same thing.

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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #305 on: November 25, 2010, 08:19:06 AM »

If one is a 'any style of game' purist, why is it so hard to accept that other people have different opinions and must be condescending? 
  Fixed  :aok



You have got alot going on in your thread, I understand everything your saying, however your not understanding anything else.

Nobody is saying you have to play a certain way lets get that clear, what it boils down to is some are saying game play has swayed one way more than the other, and its not.  
You can still play any way you want and its encouraged, however, as for noe missions=hording its more of a challenge now than it was before and a bit more of coordinating but its not as easy as the WOW days of past.  I still believe it could use more tweaking since you do see more of a massive mission usually to take a base before.  But its already been shown that no matter how large or small a town or field is there will always be overkill to accomplish it and that is the biggest complaint, that this becomes the entire reason to play, the carrot becomes the meal.

The carrot that HT created has come back to bite him in the arse and now players believe it is an inherent right to have things as easy as they were without understanding or caring to recognize the hurt it has caused in the game.  

Tell me what you cant do now that you could do before again?


Condescending? Try to keep up and be more understanding.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 08:20:41 AM by Dadsguns »


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Offline bj229r

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #306 on: November 25, 2010, 08:37:54 AM »
I'd simply like to see something that discourages 80% of the player base to log on, and join crap like this.



What's the point of a map with 200 bases, when SOOO many log on and  run to the protective blob. It reduces the game to a series of Genghis Khan whordes, with little to no small interaction. (This example happens to be Nit, but they certainly have no monopoly on this) I see this crap repeated over. As has been said before, it's no fun flying WITH this sort of thing, as there is zero challenge involved, save to be the 1 guy out of 10 chasing the lone spit, who manages to bag the kill. Not terribly fun going against it either, saving picking around the edges in a 262. I see 3-4 areas of the map which look like this (all one country, no opposition)....mebbe get ho'd in DA by the endless Tempests...log

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Offline NCLawman

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #307 on: November 25, 2010, 08:50:04 AM »

1.  But its already been shown that no matter how large or small a town or field is there will always be overkill to accomplish it and that is the biggest complaint, that this becomes the entire reason to play, the carrot becomes the meal.

2.  The carrot that HT created has come back to bite him in the arse and now players believe it is an inherent right to have things as easy as they were without understanding or caring to recognize the hurt it has caused in the game.  

3.  Tell me what you cant do now that you could do before again?


4.  Condescending? Try to keep up and be more understanding.



1.  You are correct.  And, therein lies the dilemma of finding the balance to promote small to medium fights all over the map. Rather than a single large massively overwhelming force (i.e. chicken dance to vulch)

2.  I believe you are partially correct on this point, but I would hope that the vast majority of players aren't looking for "Easy" but they do want attainable.  I would 'HOPE' that people are not actually asking for the game and town to become so 'dumbed down' that town captures are no more difficult than driving in a putting out troops.

3.  There is nothing in the game that I cannot do now that I could before.  However, Ghastly has made a very valid and well stated point just above your post and is relevant to this post.  I would also refer you back to my previous post.  It is not that a portion of the game has been taken away. It is that to effect a certain portion of that game (i.e. towns) the attacking force has to be so overwhelming that a 'horde'/vulch is INEVITABLE.  (a suck situation).  Also, don't confuse that I don't like the towns.  I love the look and I love the game play in the town.  The problem is still finding the balance to make the 'battle' (not WARZ) winnable without such a massively large force.  (By Battle, I do mean combat, not SNEAK).

4.  What part did I not understand or keep up with?  You made a condescending statement that the game is solely about air combat.  In the re-post, you changed the message, which changes the context of what you said.  I do believe that I have kept up with the conversation just fine.  And by ending your message with suggesting that I am unable to keep up, you have again decided that your are 'better than me' or everyone else.  Please explain how that IS NOT condescending?

Dads, you and I have often agreed and held similar view points on most topics on the BBS.  If I recall (though I could be mistaken) we have even flown some together and gotten along fine.  I see no reason to make this personal.   :salute

(Below is NOT directed at Dads or anyone else specific, but to the community)
As for the game, it may have started out as a purist aero-combat experience; however, if you have ever read Who Moved My Cheese you know that CHANGE is inevitable.  HTC has created a monster (a good one) and now it is becoming what the market will bear.  Do you think that if HTC had 10,000 subscribers, but 75% of them only drove tanks, he would close the doors to the business and shut down the game because it is NOT what HTC intended it to be?  The game has evolved and is now what the market dictates.  The key is to find a way to make the market (i.e. customers) promote combat in the game thus ensuring long term stability and survival.

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 08:53:05 AM by NCLawman »
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Offline FALCONWING

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #308 on: November 25, 2010, 10:56:49 AM »
WoW and EQ2 are letting people play for free now.  EQ numbers were going down ten years ago while I was playing.

I guess alot aren't "getting it" there either.

wrongway

You make my point!!!  Of course those games have leveled out or even decreased over years BECAUSE at some point you ran out of things/quests/levels to do.....BUT then another improved version came out that you moved on to!!!  In this case AION....where you have all the things EQ2 had but includes flying and PvP.  The games adapt and improve...they don't keep providing the same experience over and over again and expect US to adapt and be satisfied with what we have....

BTW WoW just released another add on which expands the game so i wouldn't count it out yet =)  they also just revamped all the entry level quests etc so you can have a completely different experience if you were to start a new character...

HTC was on the right track when they were experimenting with AI and possible offline missions/events....

What so many of these posters don't seem to grasp is that us squad leaders basically provided free of charge the "quests" for folks who wanted to do group activities in the MA.  We posted the missions that were fun and attracted folks.  BECAUSE we opted not to create missions that maximized putting the mission in harms way we were told we were bad bad bad and only wanted to attack undefended bases etc.  If you had a good rank you were told you were gaming it...if you had a good k/d people said you flew timidly....If you took many bases you were a "win th3 War" bad person....

this is the least supportive community I have ever seen...very little respect is given for ANY accomplishment and in fact most accomplishments (as mentioned above)  are viewed in a negative light.

Dan...you yourself would be the first to admit that you are not a top stick...yet you and folks like yourself are the first to tell us why we can't have fun doing things other then furballing....yet you don't really make much of an effort to be great at the very thing you hold up as the top priority of the game...instead you tend to ridicule parts of the game (i.e. torpedoing towns) etc

I guess I have to ask why do you give a darn what other folks do or don't do???  Do you spy on your neighbors and talk negatively about them???  I doubt it...so why do you not afford this community the same respect?  A large number of folks have made it clear what is or isn't fun for them...why are you against letting them enjoy the game as they see fit?

I am afraid that it will be HTC that will pay the price for catering to the furballing community....all these changes have direct impact on the "goal "oriented" side of this community....please tell me a time when the furballing community couldn't play the game exactly as they wanted??  they even have the DA, Ava, ww1 to enjoy the heck out of themselves.....we have the MA and now rules that have made it impossible to accomplish anything...you can now add the MA to the 3 (2 dead) arenas that cater to furballers....as Grizz has been saying...it will be very empty as more of us give up this game.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #309 on: November 25, 2010, 11:10:57 AM »
Quote
this is the least supportive community I have ever seen...very little respect is given for ANY accomplishment and in fact most accomplishments (as mentioned above)  are viewed in a negative light.

Well...so often, the success of the afore-mentioned quests kills fights, drives potential adversaries to the other side of the map, because the enemy can't stand up to the onslaught....there is a line somewhere, just don't know where it is
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Offline Delirium

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #310 on: November 25, 2010, 11:13:54 AM »
Okay, that's it!!!!   Dads nailed it and this thread can be closed.  HTC, take lesson.  Remove all buildings, towns, city's, strats, ships, boats, and GVs.  In fact, we don't even need a ground.  Just put the bases 'floating' in the air at 10K.  We can take off and fly around and engage in our meat-Air Combat.  The problem has been solved.  Well Done Dads and Del.   

Where did I say anything about removing base taking? Heck, I offered a few suggestions to improve it for you.

It doesn't matter, flame away. Why did I even bother?
Delirium
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Offline NCLawman

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #311 on: November 25, 2010, 11:21:12 AM »
Where did I say anything about removing base taking? Heck, I offered a few suggestions to improve it for you.

It doesn't matter, flame away. Why did I even bother?

My apologies, Del.  I misread a post and should not have included you in the sarcastic quip.  Please accept my sincere apology on that.   :salute
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Offline grizz441

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #312 on: November 25, 2010, 11:26:08 AM »
Dan...you yourself would be the first to admit that you are not a top stick...yet you and folks like yourself are the first to tell us why we can't have fun doing things other then furballing....yet you don't really make much of an effort to be great at the very thing you hold up as the top priority of the game...instead you tend to ridicule parts of the game (i.e. torpedoing towns) etc

I guess I have to ask why do you give a darn what other folks do or don't do???  Do you spy on your neighbors and talk negatively about them???  I doubt it...so why do you not afford this community the same respect?  A large number of folks have made it clear what is or isn't fun for them...why are you against letting them enjoy the game as they see fit?

I am afraid that it will be HTC that will pay the price for catering to the furballing community....all these changes have direct impact on the "goal "oriented" side of this community....please tell me a time when the furballing community couldn't play the game exactly as they wanted??  they even have the DA, Ava, ww1 to enjoy the heck out of themselves.....we have the MA and now rules that have made it impossible to accomplish anything...you can now add the MA to the 3 (2 dead) arenas that cater to furballers....as Grizz has been saying...it will be very empty as more of us give up this game.

Good post. (Although Corky is actually a very good stick)

Corky the thing is, you preach fun fun fun, try to keep things light hearted, yet you have proven that you are completely intolerant of accepting and embracing other sorts of game play that other people find fun.  You want people to enjoy the game as you do, which is fine to a point, but most people do not enjoy that.  You need to come to terms with that.

Offline Yeager

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #313 on: November 25, 2010, 11:26:55 AM »
as Grizz has been saying...it will be very empty as more of us give up this game.
Have you given up yet?
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Offline FALCONWING

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Re: NOT FUN ANY MORE!!!
« Reply #314 on: November 25, 2010, 11:48:30 AM »
Have you given up yet?

Except for 2 hours a week for squad night...I still love and respect those guys....my answer is yes... :salute

I only responded to this thread, after weeks of not even reading the boards, because it applied to my sentiments...

Besides being a jerk....why did you feel compelled to respond???  You are another good example of why this game/community is where it is...rather then stfu if it doesn't apply to you...you would rather snipe at someone trying to express a legitimate point of view about gameplay. :huh
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 11:52:35 AM by FALCONWING »
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