Author Topic: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate  (Read 2165 times)

Offline WWhiskey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3122
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2010, 09:29:02 AM »
the new towns are great,, It just takes time to relearn them,, the old ones were so easy after 5 years,, but I remember when I first started it was hard to take those back then.
 the only thing I see wrong with the new towns are the amount of shrubs or trees, if they were also destroyable this might help with everything from capture to GV war inside the town itself, they would not need to count as buildings for the capture but it would be nice to blow a hole in a hedgerow to shoot threw when defending against attacking GV's,, nothing is worse than sitting behind a hedge and being able to see the tank sitting 30 feet from you yet not being able to shoot it!
Flying since tour 71.

Offline Dadsguns

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1979
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2010, 09:39:53 AM »
Dear HT..... How about limit the amount of guys that can up to defend against a 40 man NOE mission,, maybe only 5 guys can up to defend at a time that will help bring back base captures, that way the less that defend will make it easier for us because 40 guys just isn't enough for our missions. 

Maybe even change the color of the buildings when they blow up too, maybe a hot pink or something like that, that way we can tell when the town is down because its really hard for my graphics card to see a building with all the buildings there are to see in this enormous town.

Also, could you please make it to where friendly planes are invisible to other friendlies, there are just too many screen freezes when we have a 40 man mission over a field or town, makes it really hard for me to shoot someone down like 1 of the 5 guys that are allowed to defend bases soon...... hint hint.....   

Thanks HT, I will love you forever for making it even easier for me..... kisses  :angel:





 :devil    :neener:


"Your intelligence is measured by those around you; if you spend your days with idiots you seal your own fate."

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17705
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2010, 10:03:02 AM »
The unfortunate result of months of practice by folks trying to figure out the new field captures and anti stealth settings has been the "mother of all hordes" group effort.   :airplane:  :airplane:  :airplane:  :airplane:  :airplane:

I am afraid that the emphasis in future changes will only address the "difficulty" in base capture (+ / - ).   Making base capture more obtainable with lesser numbers will be a good start.  It should offer more battles.  However, it could also lead to frequent map resets, and milkrunning.

What worries me the most, is that the "stale" portion of stalemate may have already sailed.  Players have expressed their fatigue over repetitive rolls in a number of different styles or preferences of options.  I know this may sound harsh or (some other large word, that means I don't have a clue about the complexities involved), but I would love to see this game step up, once again and offer just the sort of tweak in game play, that simply is enjoyable to players at all skill levels.  :pray

There will always be staleness in this game. It is what generates the evolution of the players. For most players it goes something along the line of..

1. find the game and get all excited jump into a fighter of your dreams and promptly get shot down IF you get into the air

2. find that the game has a huge learning curve and gravitate to something easier, like bombers.

3. find that after flying bombers a few weeks that you can hit anything you want 90% of the time with the lazer site and the only way to get any one to attack you you have to be under 10k. This becomes stale and boring.

4. find that GV's are challenging, getting up at a camped site is frustrating, but in a few weeks you learn how to get into a spot for camping yourself. After the next 100 or so kills without the other guy being able to shoot back at you you get bored and the stalness sets in again.

5. finding a squad of friends you join the missions. Your good at bombing and GVing so you can help out taking bases. You start flying fighters again, heavy now, and learn how to dive bomb. After a few months your group gets pretty good and can take almost any base in 5-25 minutes depending on the defense. This becomes stale as it is now just a repeat every mission....if it works why change it right?

6. find that your squad breaks up as each moves on looking for something else to break up the "staleness". While flying fighter and dive bombers you started to get kills. You start looking for fights to challenge yourself. This is the longest and hardest phase for most. Some become very good very fast, others (like me :D ) take forever and hope the day will come soon that they can think they are near the top of their game.

During all of this anyone can stop and be happy at any phase of the game. Some stop at the GV's and just excel at it, while they still have trouble getting a plane off the ground. Being content is ok, but most people will get bored eventually and look for something more.



Quote
Bruv, please take this as a compliment.  When you have achieved 3 top seats in fighter categories, and I have seen you land greater than 17 kills twice within 15 minutes, I will have to say that your skill level far exceeds that of the typical town porker.  What most of us want to do is simply shoot stuff and look good doing it.  Getting locked in a 60 minute battle over a single airfield, multiplies the odds for most of us loosing cartoon lives.   The appeal of the NOE, and the horde has been the likelihood of survival and success.  There you go, maybe that is the key, better chances at survival.  How does one achieve that?  Reducing 262 availability?  Reducing the popularity of the 109K4?  Reducing the range of the La7?  Reducing the one shot killz from a Tiger opponent?  Scary to think, but we have the mid war arena and until LW got shut down yesterday, it has been difficult to find a fight there, but it fits the above scenario.

Proximities of towns and spawns are specific to maps and make them challenging in different ways, and I agree we are not clear on where challenge becomes more fun or less fun, so having a mix could be beneficial. 

How about instead of "dumbing down" the game so people can survive, maybe, just maybe these people learn a few things like oh I don't know...

1. SA learn to avoid the 262, 109K, or LA7 as he makes his pass. Target fixation kills almost as many pilots as enemy do.

2. how to park a tank, or hide so a 1 shot is more difficult. Some of the old LTARs where very good at this. Poor Killz tried to teach me once. While I understand the hows and why, I've never put in the time to get it right, but it is possible.  There must be a reason people like DR7 are 3 to 1 in k/d

Offline Chilli

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4278
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2010, 01:50:37 PM »
I have been playing this game, pretty much since it's first appearance, and to characterize things like Mid War arenas, or new ideas to promote quicker base capture as "dumbing down" the game, is just a negative spin.  If HTC continued with that logic, I fear what game we would be left with (maybe AH1 with more planes and vehicles).  Yes, players evolve, but more importantly, the developers have been fantastic on evolving the game. 

Let's face it some of us  :old: farts have been around since the beginning, and look forward to the next update to see what wrinkle has been added for our enjoyment.  This is a numbers question.  How long will the game survive if it does not draw in new customers.  In 2 weeks, a potential subscriber, will probably find an abundance of new information to process besides just adjusting their  :joystick: joystick.  Now what do you think will keep the new guy interested enough to subscribe?  :airplane:  A game that has a quick learning curve to accomplish fun meaningful tasks?  :aok  A game that has a long learning curve to accomplish challenging precision strikes?  :noid The answer is probably both. 


Offline AWwrgwy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5478
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2010, 03:04:18 PM »
the new towns are great,, It just takes time to relearn them,, the old ones were so easy after 5 years,, but I remember when I first started it was hard to take those back then.
 the only thing I see wrong with the new towns are the amount of shrubs or trees, if they were also destroyable this might help with everything from capture to GV war inside the town itself, they would not need to count as buildings for the capture but it would be nice to blow a hole in a hedgerow to shoot threw when defending against attacking GV's,, nothing is worse than sitting behind a hedge and being able to see the tank sitting 30 feet from you yet not being able to shoot it!

I hear there were problems with hedges in Normandy as well.

 :D


wrongway
71 (Eagle) Squadron
"THAT"S PAINT!!"

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay

Offline Chilli

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4278
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2010, 03:28:50 PM »
I hear there were problems with hedges in Normandy as well.

 :D


wrongway

Good point!  I think it was a group of tankers that came up with the idea of modifying blades onto the front of their tanks to plow through them.  Any tankers on the HTC staff wanna modify the bushes?  Doesn't matter to me a whole lot either way.  I enjoy the new towns, just not the new grid lock.  13 years in Los Angeles traffic has used up my tolerance for sitting at a stand still, getting nothing accomplished.  Especially when there is good beer out there to be consumed!   :cheers:

Offline RTHolmes

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8260
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2010, 04:05:19 PM »
I hear there were problems with hedges in Normandy as well.

I dont gv much but I really like the new towns for that, seems alot more realistic hiding behind hedges and destroyed buildings :aok


reminds me alot of a movie I saw once ...  :headscratch:
71 (Eagle) Squadron

What most of us want to do is simply shoot stuff and look good doing it - Chilli

Offline WWhiskey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3122
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2010, 07:36:26 PM »
I hear there were problems with hedges in Normandy as well.

 :D


wrongway
if you could see it, you could still shoot it tho!
Flying since tour 71.

Offline AWwrgwy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5478
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2010, 07:52:56 PM »
if you could see it, you could still shoot it tho!

If you can shoot LOS you can hit it too.

 :old:


wrongway
71 (Eagle) Squadron
"THAT"S PAINT!!"

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay

Offline Oddball-CAF

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 868
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2010, 09:16:23 PM »
Is it really that big of an issue to take out a town? Just curiouser

Joachim,
   The problem lies merely with the graphics. The "fix" is to make undestroyed buildings show up
much easier. I do my fair share of capture attempts and have seen numerous of these fail to be taken
when troops are released because a single building nobody can see from above remains undamaged and
this after -numerous- passes by aircraft with pilots' eyes glued to the monitor trying to scope out every square inch of the town
to ensure it's completely down.
  Taking the down down in general however, is no big deal in and of itself. It's just the last couple/few bldgs
remaining undiscernible amidst the destroyed ones that is the problem.

Regards, Odd
 

Offline JOACH1M

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9793
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2010, 09:22:19 PM »
Joachim,
   The problem lies merely with the graphics. The "fix" is to make undestroyed buildings show up
much easier. I do my fair share of capture attempts and have seen numerous of these fail to be taken
when troops are released because a single building nobody can see from above remains undamaged and
this after -numerous- passes by aircraft with pilots' eyes glued to the monitor trying to scope out every square inch of the town
to ensure it's completely down.
  Taking the down down in general however, is no big deal in and of itself. It's just the last couple/few bldgs
remaining undiscernible amidst the destroyed ones that is the problem.

Regards, Odd
 
I see what u mean, I think it's stupid 1 building will ruin everything, but it all just makes the game that much better in my eyes
FEW ~ BK's ~ AoM
Focke Wulf Me / Last Of The GOATS 🐐
ToC 2013 & 2017 Champ
R.I.P My Brothers <3

Offline Spite

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 102
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2010, 02:24:55 AM »
Joachim,
   The problem lies merely with the graphics. The "fix" is to make undestroyed buildings show up
much easier. I do my fair share of capture attempts and have seen numerous of these fail to be taken
when troops are released because a single building nobody can see from above remains undamaged and
this after -numerous- passes by aircraft with pilots' eyes glued to the monitor trying to scope out every square inch of the town
to ensure it's completely down.
  Taking the down down in general however, is no big deal in and of itself. It's just the last couple/few bldgs
remaining undiscernible amidst the destroyed ones that is the problem.

Regards, Odd
 

 :aok


:aok

That, and an adjustment to 3 or 4 of the town buildings in terms of color/size/location.  There are a few too small, located under trees, blended with terrain, that could stand a change to make them more discernible.

Offline WWhiskey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3122
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2010, 07:15:42 AM »
If you can shoot LOS you can hit it too.

 :old:


wrongway
that's what I said!!!  kinda!!!  I don't have a screenshot of it,,,I may have film and could go look,, but i could see the tank!  I could see him clearly with my pintle, and could make him out in the main gun threw a thin spot in the hedge,  yet can not hit him until he is not behind the hedge at all,,
 my point is that a few leaves of a tree or a shrub, should not be able to stop a tank round!  I know it would be a very hard task to change every tree in the game to be destroyable,  but the hedges in town could be programed that way
,, if it was divided into small sections not much bigger than the tank itself,, you could blast your way threw them or make a clearing for a very nice ambush sight!  it maybe that this is more work than I can imagine, but it takes away from the realism to not be able to shoot A hole in a hedge row that is only 5 feet tall and 3 feet thick with a tank!
Flying since tour 71.

Offline falcon23

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 882
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2010, 08:18:31 PM »
how about just make hedge rows destroyable in the towns..that would give us a fighting chance agains the ack in town which CAN shoot through the hedgerows...

Offline Masherbrum

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22408
Re: Solution for Town Capture Stalemate
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2010, 09:18:20 PM »
The towns are larger and requires lots of players to coordinate the take down and capture.  Solution would be for HTC to place in the arena table a programmable percentage for town building destoyed for capture.   67%   82% and so on.

This way M3's and C-47's can constantly drop troops and the base will eventually be captured.  We just won't know the exact percentage of buildings needed.  No different then CM's changing the amount of troops needed for capture in the SEA arenas.


.............or just have an organized strategy to capture the base & town?   :bolt:      No "reworking" needed of the coad, only the lemmings who want to roll bases easier.
-=Most Wanted=-

FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC