TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD

[Lusche]

 Did we do NOE's........YEP!  Do we now?  We try.  But with the difficulty of new radar settings and taking a town down, why bother!

Uhmm.. what in the world makes NOEs so difficult to you with current LW settings?

[bustr]

You aren't seeing the big picture.  A large percentage of the player base is completely different than you.  They are not experten, and they enjoy capturing bases and trying to conquer the map.  Many are baby seals, but they help create very fun fights in the main arena.  They also help move fights around the map to different areas and between different bases, which will create different types of fights other then the same stagnant fights between the same two bases.  Capturing a base might be relatively easy for you, but that may not be the case with lots of other players.  

The large maps that can usually be found in orange contain hundreds of bases and many captures are required for these types of players to achieve ultimate victory.  In the current setup, it is too difficult to capture a base, takes too many 'resources', and makes it nearly impossible to actually win the war.  This certainly is frustrating a decent percentage of the player base and they aren't having much fun anymore.  If they don't have fun, they won't log on and in return, I don't have fun because I can't find anybody to shoot at.  I used to make fun of players who enjoyed this aspect of the game because I personally do not enjoy it or fully understand the lure of it, but I have come to realize that the more of them there are having fun, the better the fights are on the map.

Grizz for president......

Finally. If one of the super predators in this game can see this, the game is far from over.

These happy hoards are our bread and butter. They are the future following us. At the moment the game concentrates them and makes maps stagnent. I trust all of us veteren players to think outside our current box for a solution because we have put years into this game and experience matters with creativity. The hoards are having fun simply by virtue of enthusiasm. When that wears off and they are left with these arena sand boxes to makup games in, will they suddely find themselves members of our lost and bord brain dead AH Veterens Union? How many of us will still be here if we don't have a realization like Grizz's and analyze our dissatsifactions as process factors in solving our problems with the game.

Who is more capable than you who have put years into this genera to move us forward rather than the xbox generation twitch junkies who HO you every chance they get? You gentelmen are voicing excellent solutions that you cannot see in your own writings because you are more interested in airing your frustrated greivences than building solutions to make a better game.

[SWrokit]

Uhmm.. what in the world makes NOEs so difficult to you with current LW settings?

I guess what bothers me there Lusche is the RL radar for WWII.  I can tree trim with the best Bro.  But in all reality, during WWII, radar was no good under 200 feet.  The old radar settings was way to easy, granted.  But it's like we jumped from one extreme to another.  Not to mention, the expansion of the dar circles.  And again, I'm not too much for NOE attacks........I like the fight.  I like the feeling of taking, working for what we want.

No big deal.  More frustration than anything.  I know as a squad we're going to need to come up with different tactics.

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Rokit

[Lusche]

I guess what bothers me there Lusche is the RL radar for WWII.  I can tree trim with the best Bro.  But in all reality, during WWII, radar was no good under 200 feet.  The old radar settings was way to easy, granted.  But it's like we jumped from one extreme to another.  Not to mention, the expansion of the dar circles.

What arena are we talking about? You surely do not mean LW, do you? 

[Bruv119]

on the flip side my experiences in the MA over the last week. 

I've seen the Rooks on my team become more organised in going after fields.  The bases still get captured if everyone goes after the same target.  Does this help the number imbalance at the bases we were attacking probably not.  If the defenders do resist it becomes a battle of attrition but a good fight none the less.

Rather than have a tiny amount of guys scattered across the map trying to take maybe 10 fields at once it is more like 2 fields being attacked at any one time by 5-10 guys. 

I think the only thing HTC can do to help is up the town downtime to 60 minutes.  That should just about cover it for me.

[Guppy35]

I guess what bothers me there Lusche is the RL radar for WWII.  I can tree trim with the best Bro.  But in all reality, during WWII, radar was no good under 200 feet.  The old radar settings was way to easy, granted.  But it's like we jumped from one extreme to another.  Not to mention, the expansion of the dar circles.  And again, I'm not too much for NOE attacks........I like the fight.  I like the feeling of taking, working for what we want.

No big deal.  More frustration than anything.  I know as a squad we're going to need to come up with different tactics.

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Rokit

Rokit, where are you getting this 'in WW2' radar info?  Having spent so much time on Beaufighters in the last year, one thing was made perfectly clear.  To get under the radar they flew 50 feet or lower.  this was both in the Pacific and in the ETO.  In range of the target they would pull up to 200 feet for the run in.  But it was wave top height enroute.

[Guppy35]

Do the base takers have any interest in actually fighting for a base?  OR is this more to do with getting on a base taking roll on a map?  My impression is that folks want to be able to get in quick, kill the town, FH and VH so as to allow no defense and to have the base with little effort.

Correct me if I'm wrong but It seems to be a lot of wanting it back to when it was quick, easy, few people involved and very little combat.

[oTRALFZo]

Do the base takers have any interest in actually fighting for a base?  OR is this more to do with getting on a base taking roll on a map?  My impression is that folks want to be able to get in quick, kill the town, FH and VH so as to allow no defense and to have the base with little effort.

Correct me if I'm wrong but It seems to be a lot of wanting it back to when it was quick, easy, few people involved and very little combat.

Thats what this is all about. People think that just because its much harder to take a base that everyone is like mind controled zombies being forced to furball for no use at all.

The new settings brought to the table some new dynamics to the game that now you are given more of a choice when before, that choice was only dictated by the attacking force.

I understand Grizz's point that these guys were fun to intercept and very easy kills. I cant agree more BUT...If and only IF you could actually catch those guys. I cant count how many times before I would log into a typical day of taking off looking to see what to do, then you would see ALERT XX, NOE UP UP QUICK!!. I decide to land or bail my sortie only to find that one of two scenarios takes place A) they took the base already B) its getting vulched so you cant defend  or C) mission was epic failure and by the time I get there, 200 green guys are out goon hunting. This would just on and on and on all day.

Base taking IS fun and noone wants that part of the game taken out, trust me. For god's sake though learn to work hard for what you want instead of wanting something easy all the time. I will still never forget years ago when we were a bish squad, one night it was just a constant brawl knockdown bloody battle with our squad and the A8s. The battle lasted for hours and it was just our 2 squads duking it out over one stupid base. They took the base but it ended up probably being the utmost fun I have ever had playing this game and thats what its all about.

[Ardy123]

The game needs to be viewed as an ecosystem, and despite the demands of one group within that ecosystem its the tension between the ecosystem that enables it to thrive. Too much on base taking, everyone else gets frustrated and leaves, too much on air combat, base takers/gvers/etc.. leave. I have in the past have expressed frustration with the hordes taking bases, etc... but I have come to the realization that they are as important as any other group, the key is balance.

Much like the balance in the ecosystem of 'roles' there needs to be a balance in the effect that they can have on the 'objective', whatever that objective may be. One can easly notice that the land grabbers only have one target which only has at best marginal impact, which is taking bases. Maybe a more complex strat system with more targets other than bases would foster more reward for the success of their efforts. Also, this would also encourage others to care about being attacked. Furthermore, this would enable newer players to feel 'accomplished', and ultimately thats what makes the game for all of us, 'Horray I did it!', whatever 'it' is.

More complex could mean, maps, that have obvious choke points, via the use of rivers which can only be crossed at certain points. Another idea is to have items like factories have a more noticeable impact. For example, today bombing a fuel factory only limits the rebuilding of fuel sources at bases. If it instead directly impacted the amount of fuel you could take in your plane and this combined with a map where most bases were not 1/2 a sector apart, then people might care.

Another idea, is to have a more explicit concept of a 'front' where you can't spawn a GV beyond (or some other limitation). This front is moved forward by the acquisition of marked strategic points such as the top of a hill or a bridge at a river, or some level of air superiority. This would add more of an objective to the game while hopefully enabling some intense fights.

These are all just crude ideas and I'm sure many better ideas will surface, but hopefully its a starting point.

[Spite]

I think the only thing HTC can do to help is up the town downtime to 60 minutes.  That should just about cover it for me.

 

That, and an adjustment to 3 or 4 of the town buildings in terms of color/size/location.  There are a few too small, located under trees, blended with terrain, that could stand a change to make them more discernible.

[bustr]

Tweaking the town is a short term solution. Probably needed and a valid requisit. But, once you tweek it back a few notches and make it easier to achieve the pre conditions to dropping troops, what then? You have taken two steps forward and one back to the Ol Steam Roller days. Now that you have given the steam roller back some of it's old mobility, what is your plan to slowing it down and making it have to use conflict and combat to get its meth fix?

The current method in place has simply forced the steam roller to bring a minumum of 30 junkies to get the quick easy fix. Previously two talented speed freaks could do the job. The current method is partialy succesful, there are more chances than before to catch a few and fight them now because it takes a few minutes longer to finish the fix. But, whats it been now, almost two months for them to get the steam roller going again? They adapted and discovered it just takes more junkies bum rushing the Quikiemart than before. So any ideas to diffuse and distribute the efforts of 30 junkies that will still allow small numbers of consumers to enjoy getting a responsible fix while staying attractive to the steam roller?

Most players just want their fix and don't really think about the future or even the possibility that they could be contributing to killing off the source of their fix. Login, shoot a few cons, thump your chest on 200 and go to bed. Next day go on the Forums and tell HiTech his game sucks because you are bored, unhappy and it's all his fault for letting the other players ruin the game with their screwed up game play. But, scream like heck if HiTech touches the source of your personal quick meth fix in the process of attempting to evolve the game to address the stagnation.

It's all about the fastest and simplest path to your endorphin fix. Thats why it's easier to get 30 guys together to steam roll undefended feilds than 12 guys to fly fighter sweeps against them.

Endorphins ("endogenous morphine") are endogenous opioid peptides that function as neurotransmitters. They are produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus in vertebrates during exercise, excitement, pain, consumption of spicy food, love and orgasm, and they resemble the opiates in their abilities to produce analgesia and a feeling of well-being.

Endogenous morphine produced by your body is 100x more pure than medical grade morphine. This is why 30 players would rather roll undefended bases all night long and listen to the top predators in the AH food chain cuss at them on ch200. Like HiTech once said, this game is about pissing off the other guy. See why HiTech can't win no matter what he does. Anything he does is getting between some special interest group of endorphin junkies and their easy fix.

How many of you are willing to practice some delayed gratification to take a positive look at the game and its potential possiblities?

[Oldman731]

Just seems to me we had a reasonable balance before the last change.  

Seems to me I read this every time HTC makes a significant change in the game.  I've seen virtually the same statement, made quite honestly and passionately, by people for nearly 9 years now, and probably those with more time in the game saw it regularly before that.

And yet the players adapt.  And the game goes on.

- oldman

[kvuo75]

What arena are we talking about? You surely do not mean LW, do you? 

i think people just like to complain.. 

rokit... the radar IS (and has been for months?) back to the "old settings" in latewar. if you're still flying around at 50 feet to avoid radar.. well good for ya

[waystin2]

No offense kids but this is why you stay away from crack

Kids?  LOL  Bustr has underwear older than you....

[SWrokit]

i think people just like to complain.. 

rokit... the radar IS (and has been for months?) back to the "old settings" in latewar. if you're still flying around at 50 feet to avoid radar.. well good for ya

No idea Bro.  Last I knew you had to be a professional tree trimmer to avoid radar.

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Rokit