WW1 AI

[pervert]

Not sure how everyone would feel about this, but what about having AI planes in the WW1 Arena?

[CptTrips]

I'd recommend fixing the WWI Arena and then having live players.

Regards,
Wab

[pervert]

I'd recommend fixing the WWI Arena and then having live players.

Regards,
Wab

And how would you go about fixing it? I reckon numbers build numbers and there will never be a million people on at any one time so why not AI to suppliment the real players? They were thinking of doind something similar in combat tour. 

[Greebo]

I'd like to see a mission based arena implemented for WW1. So you'd have a mission to patrol a sector, protect bombers, destroy baloons etc. The host would create a counter mission to destroy the bombers, protect that sector or baloon and so on. If no players took that up in time it would chuck some AI planes at you to make things interesting.

Perhaps HTC could add a couple of slow AI two seaters as fighter fodder. AI planes ought to have a distinctive skin and/or icon as well.

[CptTrips]

And how would you go about fixing it? I reckon numbers build numbers and there will never be a million people on at any one time so why not AI to suppliment the real players? They were thinking of doind something similar in combat tour.  

You are correct in the idea that numbers tend to snowball once a critical mass has been achieved.  However when HTC first opened the door on AH they didn't already have numbers.  And they didn't fill with AI.  They built the numbers by showing dedication and interest in their arenas, by active and frequent improvements, and by providing a functional strat system to underpin the action so that there was a broad variety of activities to take part in and a rich depth to the game play.


First, some WWII Taliban will come in here and claim that no one likes WWI planes and so it will always fail.  WWI fanbase will always be a smaller number that fans of WWII.  Granted.  However RBII3D built a significant, dedicated player base over a decade.  RoF, despite its initial stumbling, is continuing to build a respectable player base.  Even in AH, Lusche has show data that there may be up to 400 HTC customers that periodically pop into the WWI during a tour to see if anything has improved since they were last there.  They don't stay.  There is a profitable WWI market that is available to be harvested with the right effort.  



Second, lets perform a thought experiment. HTC claims the 4 furball only arena format is the best choice for WWI.  Lets instead take the WWII Late War Arenas, remove all strat,  all base captures, all towns, factories, radar.  All GV's, all bombers, all fighter bombers, all bombs, all rockets,  all tanks, C47s, and reduce the paneset to 4 planes.  Next, put up a new map with a couple of fields arranged in a simple circle.  And leave it that way for a year.  Would that help or hurt their business?  The fact of the matter is its not 1995, its 2011.  With the depth of game play players have come to expect in their MMOG, that would simply not be acceptable.  HTC knows that. They would never attempt that.  It would put them out of business.  And yet, the WWI arena is expected to succeed under those same conditions.


Whats the fix?  Personally, here is my recommendation:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,304627.75.html

If they would refuse to do anything along those lines, the next best choice IMHO, would simply be to open up the WWI arena to permanent Free-Play.  That would get some people in there.  That would get more people familiar with HTC and get the client downloaded.  Eventually some of them might subscribe for the WWII arenas too.

Failing any of that, yes, throwing in some AI might be an improvement over whats there currently.  But that's a pretty low bar to aspire to.


Regards,
Wab

[sveno]

I think thats a great idea! So far i know there should be a working AI at HT developed for CT?

But i think it should take place in a specific area of the map - as we still want to be able to do duels...

[Delirium]

I'd like to see a mission based arena implemented for WW1.

Heck, if they are going to go through the effort for WWI, they might as well finish Tour of Duty for both WWI/WWII instead of putting more effort solely into a completely dead arena.

I'm deeply disappointed that ToD never materialized, I feel it could of made a huge difference in Aces High.

[jimson]

Iv'e always wanted an AI mission capability for the CM run arenas.

In AvA for example we could create a series of massive escorted bomber and intercept missions where each real pilot joining replaces an AI.

The same sort of thing could work in the WWI arena.

The LW MA's don't need it.

[LLogann]

ANYTHING to increase a draw would be a good thing!  WWI, and AvA as well. 

The biggest issue is the scoring...............

It is unfair to count AI kills as kills (anybody that has ever flown an offline mission knows the AI is not that great) but then how do we apply hit% & killpoints? 

[pervert]

ANYTHING to increase a draw would be a good thing!  WWI, and AvA as well. 

The biggest issue is the scoring...............

It is unfair to count AI kills as kills (anybody that has ever flown an offline mission knows the AI is not that great) but then how do we apply hit% & killpoints? 

You do realise that so long as they couldn't ho the P-51 AI mission in this game would wipe the floor with 80% of the playerbase in this game 

[LLogann]

   Didn't really look at it that way.  You just might be on to something, LOL.   

You do realise that so long as they couldn't ho the P-51 AI mission in this game would wipe the floor with 80% of the playerbase in this game 

[pervert]

You are correct in the idea that numbers tend to snowball once a critical mass has been achieved.  However when HTC first opened the door on AH they didn't already have numbers.  And they didn't fill with AI.  They built the numbers by showing dedication and interest in their arenas, by active and frequent improvements, and by providing a functional strat system to underpin the action so that there was a broad variety of activities to take part in and a rich depth to the game play.


First, some WWII Taliban will come in here and claim that no one likes WWI planes and so it will always fail.  WWI fanbase will always be a smaller number that fans of WWII.  Granted.  However RBII3D built a significant, dedicated player base over a decade.  RoF, despite its initial stumbling, is continuing to build a respectable player base.  Even in AH, Lusche has show data that there may be up to 400 HTC customers that periodically pop into the WWI during a tour to see if anything has improved since they were last there.  They don't stay.  There is a profitable WWI market that is available to be harvested with the right effort.  



Second, lets perform a thought experiment. HTC claims the 4 furball only arena format is the best choice for WWI.  Lets instead take the WWII Late War Arenas, remove all strat,  all base captures, all towns, factories, radar.  All GV's, all bombers, all fighter bombers, all bombs, all rockets,  all tanks, C47s, and reduce the paneset to 4 planes.  Next, put up a new map with a couple of fields arranged in a simple circle.  And leave it that way for a year.  Would that help or hurt their business?  The fact of the matter is its not 1995, its 2011.  With the depth of game play players have come to expect in their MMOG, that would simply not be acceptable.  HTC knows that. They would never attempt that.  It would put them out of business.  And yet, the WWI arena is expected to succeed under those same conditions.


Whats the fix?  Personally, here is my recommendation:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,304627.75.html

If they would refuse to do anything along those lines, the next best choice IMHO, would simply be to open up the WWI arena to permanent Free-Play.  That would get some people in there.  That would get more people familiar with HTC and get the client downloaded.  Eventually some of them might subscribe for the WWII arenas too.

Failing any of that, yes, throwing in some AI might be an improvement over whats there currently.  But that's a pretty low bar to aspire to.


Regards,
Wab

I don't think AI is a low bar to aspire to, if it had the random aspects of say RB3D it could be quite an immersive online game, the work has already been done for combat tour seems a shame to not experiment with some of it on a small scale in the WW1 arena. I have seen a few guys saying they are from Dawn of Aces and are giving it a go.

[Anaxogoras]

The problem with AI in AH is that it is crap.  I tried a bunch of offline missions made by Ranger and others, and although many were ingenious and creative, the AI was still crap.  Even the worst AI from boxed flight sims is still better than the AI in AH.

So, on that note, I don't know how AI would help the WW1 arena.

I don't bother with the AH WW1 arena because RoF has so much more to offer for WW1 air combat, i.e. the Spad 13, SE5a, Fokker D.VIIF (BMW engine), and even the lawnmower aircraft like the DH2 and Fokker E.III are a heck of a lot of fun.  I enjoy the mission rotations that "force" people into crates they might not be familiar with because sampling the different time periods of the air-war is like a plate of delicious hors d'oevres.  Air combat that is always the same matchup, e.g. Camel vs. Dr1, or worse, Dr1 vs Dr1, won't hold the interest of many people.

AH also needs a separate dispersion model for the WW1 machine guns.  From what I can see with the .target feature, there's no dispersion difference between the WW1 crates and WW2 aircraft with fuselage mounted machine guns.  Am I crazy?  Is there a difference?

Anyway, wabbit has it right.  A WW1 arena needs a lot more content before it will be successful.  What's there now is a recipe for low attendance.

I would recommend:

1) Central Powers vs Entente format
2) Flight model review for the Dr1 and Camel (the Camel's speed matches a prototype that was a testbed for different engines, the F1/3, not a production model; the Dr1 should be slower than the Camel)
3) Dispersion review (see Leon Bennett's Gunning for the Red Baron)
4) Content like balloons, artillery, etc.
5) At a minimum, the addition of the SE5a, Spad13, Fokker D.VIIF, and a German two seater like the Halberstadt Cl.II (or, since AH is all about late-war, maybe a Cl.IV).  The Albatros D.Va might be considered if the Camel and Dr1 are appropriately slowed down.
6) Give two-seaters the opportunity to spot artillery like they could do in Dawn of Aces.

Then you'd have a WW1 arena.

[jimson]

Currently, the AI fighters leave a lot to be desired.

AI bombers however could add a whole lot to scenarios and AvA.

To help the WWI arena, the AI fighters would need improvement.

[Boxboy]

Heck, if they are going to go through the effort for WWI, they might as well finish Tour of Duty for both WWI/WWII instead of putting more effort solely into a completely dead arena.

I'm deeply disappointed that ToD never materialized, I feel it could of made a huge difference in Aces High.

Hmmm dead arena??? lets see if we take away all the WWII planes but 4 and eliminate bombers, tanks, and boats and ONLY have furballs how active would WWII be???  No just give the WWI guys some love and see the numbers climb, some new fighters, some bombing objectives and some 2 seaters to carry the bombs etc it has all been said but PLEASE don't call the WWI area dead because it is unfair.