Author Topic: The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001  (Read 3273 times)

Offline Zigrat

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2001, 05:45:00 PM »
teh spitfires were always co alt with us, we were never above them at start.. yes we were above the otehrs, but its hard to think when u have hispano armed planes coalt

hey you guys played by the ruels and won, you deserved the win! dont get aggitated  :)

Offline Lephturn

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2001, 06:51:00 PM »
I just want to comment on the fact that NEITHER side was cohesive squads that had practiced and had a plan.  Heck, I showed up and said "hey Thunder, what do I do".  :)  Thunder said... fly a jug, go left with me, other three jugs go right.  I hadn't even downloaded the terrain until 30 minutes earlier.  We had walkons too, although I think less than the Axis.  We never practiced, never talked strategy and tactics etc.  Nobody was all serious about this on the Allied side... except maybe for Hang, and even he was just in this for toejams and giggles really.  Both sides just showed up, had a flight lead say "go that way and kill things", and away we went.  I for one had a blast, and I wouldn't have it any other way.  :)

That was the extent of our big plan.  I have only rarely flown with any of the guys I flew with, and none of 'em were squad mates.  I did get RW going, which helped.  Basically, we simply sent spits in low head-on while the others circled for position.  After that it was a big free-for-all.  In our cage 5 (SE cage) the Axis were higher every round starting out.  I had 109's and 190's above me for 1/2 of all three flights.  Generally we just ignored the high fellows and killed the low ones.  After that the numbers were on our side, and we just waited for the LW go come down after us and get stuck-in.

Anyway, my point is that neither side was all serious and practiced up.  This wasn't a major scenario, it was a fun, quick, fair little RUMBLE.  Damn it was fun.  Lets not over-analyse it.

<S> Allies and <S> worthy Axis opponents.

Offline Hangtime

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2001, 09:01:00 PM »
Whot he said ^^^^   :)
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Professor Fate

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2001, 09:22:00 PM »
You forgot one more reason why the allied won, me and my wingman from the original LW rumblers didn't take part if we had we would've chased down those P-51's again   :).

I'll be there for the next one though!

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Professor Fate ]

Offline Thunder

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2001, 10:08:00 PM »
Vulcan,

I am not disagreeing with your basic premise but I am mentioning this just to give additional information for anyone reading.

 
Quote
3rd Round was completely off the scale. In our sector we had at least 3, maybe more, Tempests.

This is totaly correct from what you saw... There were 5 Tempests total allowed for the Allied side for the 3rd round by the rules. Hangtime chose to allocate ALL of them to me in Cage 5. He told me ahead of time it was my responsibility to try and get all five of them to the center cage for the final battle. Fortunatly (for me)his plan worked and they all survived and accounted for many of the kills. There were no other Tempests flying in round 3 in the other 4 cages. We were hoping that this imbalance would keep more Tempests alive for the final fight in the center cage later. That probably accounted for lopsidedness you saw in Cage five. But I am not sure if there was an Allied advantage in the other cages in Round 3. I don't know which planes were chosen to fight each other in the other cages. All in all win or lose I personally had a very fun time and gained a great respect for all of the pilots on both sides watching them fly in a closed environment.

Salute,

Thunder
Aces High DickweedHBG: www.dickweedhbg.com

Offline eddiek

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2001, 07:33:00 AM »
While I was unable to participate in this year's Rumble (had to pull out at the last minute because I had to work   :( ), I was quite interested in how it would turn out.
After reading all the posts I could find, it seems to me that the Allies flew as a cohesive group and used teamwork.  The Axis, on the other hand, seemed to fall apart.  BOTH sides had newbies, both sides had no shows and had to make last second reassignments....all in all, each side experienced similiar problems getting things setup before the Rumble began.
With all due respect, the post about the planesets being disadvantageous to the Axis is way off.  Gotta call BS on that one.  If the FM's are correct, looking at the HTC performance charts shows the G2 holding the edge at 20-25K in climb over both the Jug and the Spit.  The Jug was the fastest at that alt, and neither LW plane could turn with the Spit.  The 190a5/Jug matchup looked to be the most even at those alts, and the 109 held the edge in climb all the way thru the alt range.  As for the guns, well, no comment needed.  Am not sure what the performance differences are between the Spit5 and 9, and the P47D-11 and D-30.....no charts available, but the planeset should not have been the difference.  Looks like the Allies used better tactics all in all.  Just my opinion, of course.       :D

Congrats to the Allies!   Wish I could have been there to join in the fun.

[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: eddiek ]

Offline Dawvgrid

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2001, 08:14:00 AM »
and I was in that cave with all those bleeding tempests,,,,in my little Messy  :D

Offline Wlfgng

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2001, 09:28:00 AM »
Yup Eddiek.. sounds like the Axis got caught with their pants down.

teamwork will get you everytime... or lack of it.

Offline sling322

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2001, 10:36:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 214thCavalier:
<snip> in my book a 3-0 WIN IS A ONE SIDED FIGHT.
And i suspect when the logs are complete they will only confirm that statement.
So look elsewhere for whining cos you aint getting any from me.
Got it ?

I apologize Cavalier....I simply read your statement the wrong way.  I thought you were trying to say that the plane choices were one-sided and favored the Allies or that the numbers were one-sided and the Allies had better numbers.  It was a simple misunderstanding.

<S> to you sir!!

Offline Professor Fate

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2001, 10:44:00 AM »
I would like to offer one more thing and thats a crisp button line <S> to those in this post it's great to see everyone keeping it civil compared to the ruckus that followed the last rumble, which if anyone gives a crap was the sole reason I stayed out of this one.  But I'm now sorry I did, next time though    :)  WTG to all!
   
I AM PROFESSOR FATE

[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: Professor Fate ]

Offline Sandman

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2001, 12:18:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sancho:
Yep, we used Spits, jugs, and ponies in the SE cage near field 18.  Original plan was to focus on jugs and P51s, but I had some guys who whined excessively about this   :D and since the Rules of Engagement (agreed on by both sides well before the fight) allowed me to pick whatever planeset I wanted, I added a small contingent of spits.  They were the minority every frame and certainly didn't do all the killing, but they did rack up quite a record of kills. <S>

I think my particular whine went something like, "Hey Sancho! No Spit9?"

I think we were fortunate to have the Spits in Cage 1. Completely changed the dynamics of the fights for the Luftwobble.

<S>
sand

Offline hblair

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2001, 03:19:00 PM »
Good to see the positive attitudes here. After reflecting on the happenings of Saturday, I can say that the main reason I didn't do well was the fact that I was flying with unfamiliar fellas. They were great guys and good sticks, but I just wasn't used to hearing their voices on RW, so I wasn't sure who was who when they said they were in trouble, etc.

Unfortunately, my squad was split between three different cages. If ts, zig, newwguy, hamish, regurge and I coulda flown together during those 3 duels, the results (probably not the overall results) would have likely been different. We flew where hristo put us. Unfortunately some others expressed that they would not fly at all if they weren't all together with their squadron.

hristo did a great job, not to mention people like wmaker who had to step up at the last second to get a flight together. Getting any kind of flight together at the last minute in an organized event is tough, and wmaker did a great job with it.

Anyhow, there ya have it, we lost because of axis pilot apathy and seperated squaddies flying against a better motivated allied counterpart, and if you read the parser, you'll see we were always outnumbered by an average of 1 plane per cage each round. So, if ya look at the big picture, it is safe to say that we were beaten by a bunch of hacking, cheating, vulching, good fer nothin' bums.

Which brings me to the next issue, the need for a rematch. One that contains the best of the axis vs. the best of the allies. Like 20 vs. 20 or so? That sound ok? And it's not gonna be Pony D's vs. us in 109F's neither.

That is all.


 :)

Offline Zippatuh

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2001, 03:47:00 PM »
***Edit***  Comment made in somewhat bad form and withdrawn.

[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: Zippatuh ]

Offline Nash

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2001, 04:06:00 PM »
Hey hblair, I agree. Great to see the good attitudes here. Very different from last year.  :) <S> All.

About the numbers...

I've looked at the parser results and can't find the 5 plane disparity in each round. For one thing, round 1 was hosed because I told folks to auger before daddog had a chance to close the logs - so I can't tell anything about what happened there. In the 2nd and 3rd rounds, it does look like a 1 to 2 man advantage *overall* (not per ring) by the Allies. You gotta check and see that in round 3, for example, 5 Allied take-offs were actually observers. Take them out of the equation and you've got only a 1-2 plane difference in the entire arena.

Plus there are a couple of things we can't see. Did any of the Allies see that their flight was over by one, and asked someone to auger? Maybe. Was it the Allies who upped with 1-2 people more than were allowed - or was there a snafu on the Axis side and they upped with 1-2 people short?

The CMs were whippin' around to the tunnels on take-offs counting the planes, and while we couldn't get to all of them, we saw nothing weird.

As far as a rematch goes, it's completely up to you. I'm not going to hold one at this scale for awhile now - but a 20 vs 20 is something that anyone here can organize. The terrain is now on the HTC server so get the pilots together, grab a CM or two and work out the details, and yer set. Someone's gotta pick me though because I'd *love* to fly in one of these things.  :)

One thing that's going to fill the void here, and something that I'm really looking forward to, is the squad invitational event series that I've read about. I forget what it's being called and I no longer can find any links to it. Anyone know where I can find that again? Nothing like two well oiled squads dukin' it out.

Anyways, again, I'm real pleased about the the way everyone's handling the outcome of Rumble 2001... and I look forward to 2 oh 2.

<S>

Offline SOB

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The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2001, 04:22:00 PM »
Hblair, you LuftWaffle scumbag.  I have it on good authority that you and everyone in your group during the rumble were using a hack to make your planes perform better than spec and fire their guns backwards at will!  Even with that advantage you were beaten.  I have filmed it, and will be sending the film for Animal to review...he's HTC's new Grand Inquisitor, and he will get to the bottom of this.

Remember.  No One expects the Puerto Rican Inquisition!


SOB
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!