Spit 8 vs Ki

[ink]

There are a similar aircraft it's hard to say how to counter an 84 with 8, from the top of my head I'll tell you have the Spitfire accelerates better and climbs a lot better than the Ki.

I thought Krusty means that they are not week, I don't believe he actually meant they are the strongest just stronger than some other planes.

Your saying one's the Spitfire's wings are damaged the fight ends? What do you mean by damaged? As far as I know if Ki-84's wings are shot off the fight ends as well.

I dont know the numbers but I question your assessment off the spit climbing "a lot" better, I would guess the KI is very close.


dont know if these pages are up to date

http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
spit definitely out climbs it, with wep By a Lot

[MachFly]

I dont know the numbers but I question your assessment off the spit climbing "a lot" better, I would guess the KI is very close.


dont know if these pages are up to date

http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
spit definitely out climbs it, with wep By a Lot
(Image removed from quote.)

I posted that link a few pages back  



Seems like the Spitfire does climb better, on average by a good 1000ft/min  

[ink]

 

[MachFly]

 

[Ack-Ack]

I don't think that's it... I've hit them with .50s as well, very long solid bursts before they fall off. Planes such as F4Fs and FM2s that can really hang in a fight. Bursts from P-38s (sans 20mm) and from P-40s...

Are you sure you're hitting what you're shooting at?  The main area I aim for on a Spitfire is the wing/wing root area because it is so easy to remove a Spitifire's wing with a single burst of .50s from a P-38, let alone when I decided to toss a couple of 20mm rounds into the mix.

ack-ack

[SPKmes]

Are you sure you're hitting what you're shooting at?  The main area I aim for on a Spitfire is the wing/wing root area because it is so easy to remove a Spitifire's wing with a single burst of .50s from a P-38, let alone when I decided to toss a couple of 20mm rounds into the mix.

ack-ack

You guys are sickening......"i aim for the wingroot blah de blah......I aim for the plane and am over joyed when I hit it ..

[PFactorDave]

You guys are sickening......"i aim for the wingroot blah de blah......I aim for the plane and am over joyed when I hit it ..

I'm with you Tongs!  I'm just pleased with myself if I see a hit sprite somewhere!

[Krusty]

Are you sure you're hitting what you're shooting at?  The main area I aim for on a Spitfire is the wing/wing root area because it is so easy to remove a Spitifire's wing with a single burst of .50s from a P-38, let alone when I decided to toss a couple of 20mm rounds into the mix.

ack-ack

I'm saying I fire, I see sustained hit sprites on the spit wings (mostly 8s and 16s) from all sorts of planes that I fly, all sorts of guns, from 190a8s to f4f4s, and I don't see those spits shedding wings nearly as much as claimed. I often do shoot the wings off, but not on the first burst, and not without earning it most times. So effectively, from a shoot'em'down situation they're no weaker than the average plane (excluding certain titanium US models).


EDIT: Also excluding big-bore guns such as 30mm or 37mm, those would remove wings on any plane.

[BaldEagl]

Having flown Spits for years I don't think the wings are any more susceptable to enemy fire than any other plane.  They are susceptable to snapping off in a high speed dive, particularily when pulling out, but even then with a modicum of control you can achieve incredibly high dive speeds and therein lies one of the Spit's major advantages over the Ki-84 which will lose it's ailerons at those speeds.

Low and slow the Ki holds a very minor turn rate advantage but a bit of vertical fighting can offset this disadvantage.  The Ki is so susceptable to losing ailerons that a simple loop can gain the Spit an advantage because the Ki will have to hold flaps down on the downswing and possibly even drop throttle.  The upshot is that the Ki pilot is a lot busier controlling his aircraft than the Spit pilot and therefore more likely to make a mistake.  While he's thinking about controlling his plane the Spit pilot can be thinking about how to control the fight.

[MachFly]

Note: A few more holes on the other side and bottom

Was shot by:
P-47
Brewster
Niki
Wirble
Base Ack

[Muzzy]

Seconding what the previous esteemed poster said. The Ki pilot has control issues he needs to work out, whereas the spit jockey has a much easier time of it.  This one is almost too close to call, and I almost don't know which side of the encounter I'd rather be on.  I like both planes and have used them with relative (for me) success, but the spit takes much less thinking.

[Karnak]

Low and slow the Ki holds a very minor turn rate advantage but a bit of vertical fighting can offset this disadvantage.  The Ki is so susceptable to losing ailerons that a simple loop can gain the Spit an advantage because the Ki will have to hold flaps down on the downswing and possibly even drop throttle.  The upshot is that the Ki pilot is a lot busier controlling his aircraft than the Spit pilot and therefore more likely to make a mistake.  While he's thinking about controlling his plane the Spit pilot can be thinking about how to control the fight.

I don't think I've ever lost the ailerons on a Ki-84 that was going slower than 480mph.

[Debrody]

(Image removed from quote.)
Note: A few more holes on the other side and bottom

Was shot by:
P-47
Brewster
Niki
Wirble
Base Ack

You have a magical spitfire then  
They usually lose a wing if i can hit it 3-4 times with the 20mm on the same part.
Muzzy, exactly. Spit8 is one of the easyest planes to fly well.

[moot]

MachFly that's 1 data point.

A note on spitfires' wings: Does anyone argue that they break easily under G load?  Assuming this is inarguable, you might put 2 and 2 together: if AH models extra projectile damage on wings taking much maneuvering load, it might explain the discrepancy in people's experience RE: spitfire wing durability.

I stick to the impression I've got over about 10 years now: spitfire wings break off much easier than most.

[MachFly]

MachFly that's 1 data point.

A note on spitfires' wings: Does anyone argue that they break easily under G load?  Assuming this is inarguable, you might put 2 and 2 together: if AH models extra projectile damage on wings taking much maneuvering load, it might explain the discrepancy in people's experience RE: spitfire wing durability.

I stick to the impression I've got over about 10 years now: spitfire wings break off much easier than most.

I'm not saying that your wrong, but I normally don't have a problem with it. Just make sure you don't use full motion of controls in the 450 range.