Spit 8 vs Ki

[MachFly]

You have a magical spitfire then  
They usually lose a wing if i can hit it 3-4 times with the 20mm on the same part.

Yes sir I do, love my Spit14.




(It has the same wings as the 8)

[moot]

I don't fly spits.. I can definitely without a doubt say, the spits wings are definitely easier than most to break off with guns.  Just no doubt whatsoever, not in a decade of playing.

And above I'm not saying spits wings break because of mishandling, but that there's a compounding effect:
1) spit wings are relatively (to rest of planeset) easily broken by G load
2) spit wings are "arguably" easier to catastrophically damage by gun
3) AH considers G load in computing gun damage
4) all of the above = possible reason for variety in people's impression of spits' durability.  IE maybe I've been shooting spit wings while they're maneuvering harder than not (fits with my experience base/bias: making spits dodge hard in a 152) and that explains why I'm seeing em break more than you and others.

But personally even without the above phenomenon I still think they're definitely one of the easiest to damage.

[Oldman731]

but the spit takes much less thinking.

I think this is very true.  The Frank takes some practice to fly well.

- oldman

[JUGgler]

I think this is very true.  The Frank takes some practice to fly well.

- oldman

Well this is all relative, all of the "better" rides take a bit more experience. The Frank does take a little more time in the seat then the spit but I think you can get more out of the Frank. After having said that I laughed cause I'm a complete bafoon in the spit (all thumbs)  . But seriously all the so called "harder rides" are interestingly enough the "best" rides.

Corsair= This plane changes dramatically once you learn some good flap management skills
K4=  Throttle control, throttle control and gunnery
P38= Nothing and I mean nothing can manipulate the "verticle" fight like this jewel
KI84= what can I say, keep this plane inside your opponents "personal space" and it is almost unbeatable
F6= learn to be comfortable with the lack of views and this plane is a true monster
Mossy= Not familiar with this ride enough but I've seen Grizz, Bat and Kappa reverse it so fast it will boggle the mind
NJUG= this truely is a diamond in the rough, get past the poor acceleration and manage flaps well and this beasty is a true predator

There's a few others but my point is a NOOB will never do well in these rides. But an experienced player with these rides will pwn experienced players in comparable "easy rides". These rides actually have more options and tools at there disposal than "1-2 trick" easy rides   IMHO



JUGgler

[Dead Man Flying]

The Ki-84 is extremely competitive against any Spit.  If it suckers the Spit into a level or climbing spiral, it's all over.

My main tactic against the Ki, if I had room, was to get fast and stay fast.  The Spit has significantly better high speed handling than the Ki, and you can bleed off that extra speed much more quickly than the nearly control-locked Ki.  Get them really fast, hit the brakes, then crank it around.  Enjoy your kill.

[MachFly]

The Ki-84 is extremely competitive against any Spit.  If it suckers the Spit into a level or climbing spiral, it's all over.

You mean it's all over for the ki if they get into a climbing spiral? Since Spitfire has a better climb rate a climbing spiral with a Spitfire is the worst thing a Ki84 pilot can possibly do.

Your saying Ki-84 is extremely competitive against any Spit. Spit 1 & 5 can easy out turn the ki, and 14 operates in totally different speed ranges that unless he really wants to fight the ki, there is no way ki is fighting him. So the only ones I can compare the Ki to are the 9, 8, and 16.

[MachFly]

Well this is all relative, all of the "better" rides take a bit more experience. The Frank does take a little more time in the seat then the spit but I think you can get more out of the Frank. After having said that I laughed cause I'm a complete bafoon in the spit (all thumbs)  . But seriously all the so called "harder rides" are interestingly enough the "best" rides.

Corsair= This plane changes dramatically once you learn some good flap management skills
K4=  Throttle control, throttle control and gunnery
P38= Nothing and I mean nothing can manipulate the "verticle" fight like this jewel
KI84= what can I say, keep this plane inside your opponents "personal space" and it is almost unbeatable
F6= learn to be comfortable with the lack of views and this plane is a true monster
Mossy= Not familiar with this ride enough but I've seen Grizz, Bat and Kappa reverse it so fast it will boggle the mind
NJUG= this truely is a diamond in the rough, get past the poor acceleration and manage flaps well and this beasty is a true predator

There's a few others but my point is a NOOB will never do well in these rides. But an experienced player with these rides will pwn experienced players in comparable "easy rides". These rides actually have more options and tools at there disposal than "1-2 trick" easy rides   IMHO



JUGgler

I disagree.

Some of the planes you mentioned are good for a noob, some of the other that you mentioned are not good for anyone (sure they might be enjoyable to fly but you wont be the best in them).

F4U: Good guns and good turn rate for any noob to use, if they drop flaps that turn rate increases. You don't need to know how many notches of flaps to drop, just drop what you feel is needed to turn with the enemy, yes you might burn up your energy but a noob does not need to be an expert in this plane. Also compared to a lot of other planes it has air breaks which help out a lot. I'd recommend this plane to a lot of noobs.
K4: Great for running, any noob would love that. Guns will be a problem, but since most noobs can't hit anything anyways it's not that bad.
P-38: It might be good in the vertical, but the only person who ever gave me trouble in that plane was ack-ack, so excluding him no matter how good you know this plane you will be at a disadvantage.
Ki-84: I think a noob will do well in the Ki84, it's a Japanese build Spitfire.
F6F: Visibility wont be a problem for a noob because their SA sucks anyways. But it does turn good, has good guns, and is capable of taking a lot of fire.
Mossy: It can be flown well with a good pilot, but just like the 38 I have yet to see anyone give me a hard time in it.
NJUG: Same thing, don't remember anyone giving me trouble in it.

[Dead Man Flying]

You mean it's all over for the ki if they get into a climbing spiral? Since Spitfire has a better climb rate a climbing spiral with a Spitfire is the worst thing a Ki84 pilot can possibly do.

Nope.  Unless they've remodeled the Ki-84 since I was flying against it, it had a huge advantage in any vertical fight where flaps and low speed handling mattered.

Your saying Ki-84 is extremely competitive against any Spit. Spit 1 & 5 can easy out turn the ki, and 14 operates in totally different speed ranges that unless he really wants to fight the ki, there is no way ki is fighting him. So the only ones I can compare the Ki to are the 9, 8, and 16.

Yes, I'm saying it's competitive against any Spit.

[MachFly]

Nope.  Unless they've remodeled the Ki-84 since I was flying against it, it had a huge advantage in any vertical fight where flaps and low speed handling mattered.

Yes, I'm saying it's competitive against any Spit.

What kind of low speed do you have in mind? A smart Spitfire pilot will just not get to slow and will not have any problems.

Could you explain what made you come to the conclusion that Ki-84 is extremely competitive against Spitfires I, V, and XIV? Their performance envelope is not only different, but it's in a totally different spot.

[JUGgler]

I disagree.

Some of the planes you mentioned are good for a noob, some of the other that you mentioned are not good for anyone (sure they might be enjoyable to fly but you wont be the best in them).

F4U: Good guns and good turn rate for any noob to use, if they drop flaps that turn rate increases. You don't need to know how many notches of flaps to drop, just drop what you feel is needed to turn with the enemy, yes you might burn up your energy but a noob does not need to be an expert in this plane. Also compared to a lot of other planes it has air breaks which help out a lot. I'd recommend this plane to a lot of noobs.
K4: Great for running, any noob would love that. Guns will be a problem, but since most noobs can't hit anything anyways it's not that bad.
P-38: It might be good in the vertical, but the only person who ever gave me trouble in that plane was ack-ack, so excluding him no matter how good you know this plane you will be at a disadvantage.
Ki-84: I think a noob will do well in the Ki84, it's a Japanese build Spitfire.
F6F: Visibility wont be a problem for a noob because their SA sucks anyways. But it does turn good, has good guns, and is capable of taking a lot of fire.
Mossy: It can be flown well with a good pilot, but just like the 38 I have yet to see anyone give me a hard time in it.
NJUG: Same thing, don't remember anyone giving me trouble in it.

Really?

Which of the above rides would a NOOB be successful in?  I mean honestly?


I guess if you're just "perch picking" I can see it, But this would not be my definition of "successful" 



JUGgler

[Dead Man Flying]

What kind of low speed do you have in mind? A smart Spitfire pilot will just not get to slow and will not have any problems.

Wait, we're talking about planes, right?  Or pilots?  Smart pilots will beat dumb pilots every time without regard to the planes they're flying.  I argue that the pilots being equal, the Ki-84 matches up well against all Spits.  I didn't suggest that it was superior.

Could you explain what made you come to the conclusion that Ki-84 is extremely competitive against Spitfires I, V, and XIV? Their performance envelope is not only different, but it's in a totally different spot.

By your logic, the Zeke should be the greatest plane in the game since it outturns pretty much everything.  So what if the Spit I and V outturn the Ki?  The Ki possesses significantly better low speed vertical handling and flaps responsiveness than either of them.  I flew the godly and later the less-than-godly Spit V for years, and a Ki-84 matched up extremely well against it when flown to its strengths.  

Also by your logic, the Spit XIV should be outclassed by the Ki-84 since the Ki easily outturns it.  Yet you were arguing exactly the opposite of that earlier - that the Spit XIV dominates due to its speed advantage.  Either turning matters, or it doesn't matter.  How's that Spit XIV's slow speed vertical handling?  I recall it being rather tempermental when it got slow.

[moot]

MachFly you remember that Lev was pretty much Spitfire King for years and years, right?  see above

The Ki84's fowlers leave it with much better agility than the Spit's single-notch split flaps. No contest..

[MachFly]

MachFly you remember that Lev was pretty much Spitfire King for years and years, right?  The Ki84's fowlers leave it with much better agility than the Spit's single-notch split flaps.

Sorry I don't remember who Lev is, perhaps I'll remember if I see his avatar. Is Lev his full name?


Ki-84 does have better flaps, that is one thing the Spitfire really lacks.

[MachFly]

Really?

Which of the above rides would a NOOB be successful in?  I mean honestly?


I guess if you're just "perch picking" I can see it, But this would not be my definition of "successful"  



JUGgler

I can't think of a single airplane a noob would be successful in, at least successful by my standards. His skill would always let him down.

[FLS]

Machly you might want to check your data. The Ki-84 has better low alt stats.

<waves to +dead>