Author Topic: GV Automatic Transmissions  (Read 2588 times)

Offline AWwrgwy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5478
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2011, 03:00:14 AM »
What we had before was an analog throttle/brake giving you fine control and immediate response; except for the annoying auto acceleration if you centered the stick.  Analog control is responsive: you can quickly make big changes or small changes. 

What we have now is exactly like a cruise control- push a button to accelerate, hold it down and wait until you reach the desired speed, push another button to reduce speed, hold it down until you slow down to the new desired speed.  Excellent for unattended cross country traveling, not so responsive for maneuvering in town or to take up a hull down position. 

What I'd want would be to be able to map the right toe brake as an analog vehicle throttle and the left toe brake as an analog brake (the twisty stick would then be the differential clutch/brake steering).  That'll never come to pass because then one would have to keep ones foot down on the throttle to keep moving.  So I'll continue to run into things and get killed when I overshoot my chosen hull down position.

Boy I must not have been doing it right with the old system.

I'd start the engine, shift through the gears while holding my stick forward until I got to maximum speed in whatever gear I was in, usually the gear I could go fastest in. To slow down, I downshifted and ended up going max speed in the next lowest gear. No fine adjustment. Only immediate because I was slamming the gears lower. To stop, yank back on the stick until you roll to a stop.

Fine control adjustments are much easier now. Tap W, or whatever button you've mapped, until you are going the exact speed you want.

Want to creep forward from a stop? Tap W, Tap W.

Want to stop? Shift + S. Slow down a bit? Tap on S.

Seems pretty straight forward to me, but I'm no experten.

You can kind of set your toe brakes as accelerator and brake, just when you let off the "accelerator, you don't slow down. You need to "brake".

Map W to the right toe and S to the left toe in your gv mode.



wrongway
71 (Eagle) Squadron
"THAT"S PAINT!!"

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay

Offline 715

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1835
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2011, 11:48:09 PM »

You can kind of set your toe brakes as accelerator and brake, just when you let off the "accelerator, you don't slow down. You need to "brake".

Map W to the right toe and S to the left toe in your gv mode.

wrongway

Perhaps with external pedal software you can do that.  It is not possible to map an analog axis to a keypress in AH.

Offline Blagard

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 731
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2011, 03:50:04 AM »
Perhaps with external pedal software you can do that.  It is not possible to map an analog axis to a keypress in AH.

This is why I had to change the Pedal Toe Axis to Key Press in CH Control Manager

An improvement in AH would be to have AXIS for the Accelerate and Brake/Reverse in much the same way as Aircraft toe brakes that in AH can be assigned to either a Key Press or an Axis.

Offline SmokinLoon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6168
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2011, 09:47:58 AM »
There are no "improvements" only changes.



Obviously a matter of opinion, 'ol chap!   :) 
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline AWwrgwy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5478
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2011, 01:37:27 PM »
Perhaps with external pedal software you can do that.  It is not possible to map an analog axis to a keypress in AH.

Yes, as AWwrgwy has said.
In mode 1(Aircraft)
My Toes brakes in aircraft are mapped to keys C & V (the default), I used to have them on the analog brake axis for the toes, but CH gear lets you change the toe axis to a key press instead.

In mode 2 (GV's)
My toes brakes are still programmed to C & V  so I simply remapped the GV  S(brake/reverse)  and W(accelerate) to C and V instead.
The range dial was on C and V in GV's so I had to change that (remap AH Gunner) but thats all.

I haven't, I still have them on the pedals


wrongway
71 (Eagle) Squadron
"THAT"S PAINT!!"

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay

Offline Gr8pape

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 195
      • Swamp Revel Computers
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2011, 04:17:45 PM »
The problem is - Automatic transmissions in a era where there weren't any.

No tanks, jeeps, M3, 251's or any other vehicle in WWII service had an automatic transmission. Bring back the old way please.
I would rather try and fail, than not try at all. (paraphrased)
F.D. Roosevelt

Offline Butcher

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5323
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2011, 04:21:20 PM »
No, that is not what I mean.  I want the transmission to work like the old days.  Push it once for 1st gear, and speed stays same, ie full speed, not always hunting for a speed.  Push it again and it goes to second instantly and holds its speed.  Push it again and it holds 3rd gear speed constantly, etc etc.  Then back off by pushing the tranny button where there is a real neutral gear where the tank wont all of the sudden start moving forward and shifting gears like a madman.  And the transmission on hills is just not working too good either. 

Now, we got the rudder  back on our stick.  And that is great.  I dont see why we cant have our forward and backward motion back too on the joystick.

EskimoJoe, if I hit shift w mine automatically runs through all the gears, not just the top speed of the one I have selected.

Somethings wrong, pressing w once shifts to one gear, I would suggest calibrating your joystick which has been a problem in the past.
JG 52

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2011, 04:21:54 PM »
Somethings wrong, pressing w once shifts to one gear, I would suggest calibrating your joystick which has been a problem in the past.


Only 7 months late...  ;)
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2011, 04:31:30 PM »
The problem is - Automatic transmissions in a era where there weren't any.

No tanks, jeeps, M3, 251's or any other vehicle in WWII service had an automatic transmission. Bring back the old way please.
It isn't an automatic transmission.  It is the driver, who is controlled by AI.  You, as the commander, are simply telling him to go a certain speed and then he (the AI) decides which gears to use in order to do so.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline AWwrgwy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5478
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2011, 04:26:27 AM »
The problem is - Automatic transmissions in a era where there weren't any.

No tanks, jeeps, M3, 251's or any other vehicle in WWII service had an automatic transmission. Bring back the old way please.

You know this for a fact?

Quote
Dynaflow was the trademark name for a type of automatic transmission developed and built by General Motors' Buick Motor Division from the late 1940s to the mid 1963. The Dynaflow, which was introduced for the 1948 model year only as an option on Roadmaster models, received some severe early testing in the M18 Hellcat tank destroyer, which were built in Buick's Flint, Michigan assembly plant during World War II. It was also used in the 1951 Le Sabre concept car
Quote
The first tangible result of the Transmission Development Group's labors was Buick's M-18 Hellcat tank destroyer, which used a modified Allison TorqMaster bus transmission with a torque converter replacing the clutch. The Hellcat proved very successful, validating many of Kelley's ideas. It set the stage for torque converter transmissions for GM's postwar passenger cars.

Always wondered why it was called a "Torqmatic Transmission".
http://m18hellcat.com/m18hellcat/Home.html

I have had an idea vis a vis a "manual" transmission though.

I mean, what was the old "manual" transmission anyway?
You pressed a button and pushed your stick forward until you topped out and pushed a button again.

My idea is to make a "Manual" transmission option like a stall limiter or prop overspeed thingy in WWI.

You check the "manual transmission" box and, like now, press W to go forward. Unlike the "automatic", you would only accelerate until you reached the top speed in that particular gear. Then, you would need to press another button to "shift" into the next gear, press w again until you topped out in that gear and repeat.

Maybe they could also intoduce engins stalling out if you don't downshift properly as you slow down or if there is too much load on the engine due to going up hill.

You can have your "manual" transmission.    :neener:


wrongway
71 (Eagle) Squadron
"THAT"S PAINT!!"

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay

Offline HawkerMKII

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1133
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2011, 05:40:14 AM »
The new auto trans. "WORKS" but I think everyone can agree that the old manual style should be an option as well.

Let us choose which one we map please.

YES YES YES... :salute
8th of November 1965, 173RD Airborne <S>

Offline AKP

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1294
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2011, 07:09:42 AM »
I have W and S mapped to the small joystick on my G13 controller.  To move ahead slow... just a slight tap forward and release.  Full speed... push forward for a second or two and release.  Same with going backwards and stopping.  I dont mind the new system at all... just took some getting used to.

***G3-MF***

Offline Tigger29

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2568
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2011, 02:18:19 PM »
Personally I liked the old set up better but that doesn't automatically mean that I hate the new setup also.  I think that (for the most part) it works well but it does still need some bugs ironed out of it.  I think the two biggest problems are as follows:

1> Lack of acceleration while turning.  If you're giving it too much steering input (if you use the rudder axis for steering) then it does not want to accelerate unless the rudder controls are fully centered.  For those with jittery pots or even if wanting to make a quick turn right after starting to roll this can be.. well annoying at best, deadly at worst.  One example is leaving the VH.  You start to roll and as soon as you hit the doorway you turn left.  You're stuck at a slow speed until you either complete the turn or decide to go straight instead.  It's almost as if Aces High is telling us "You're too stupid to navigate that turn while accelerating so I'm going to slow down for you".  I don't agree with this and if we want to flip our tanks then that should be our business and not the games.

My solution for this is to let it limit turning control using WASD BUT if we choose to use analog controls (rudder axis) for steering then let us make our own mistakes.

2> Speed hunting.  This happens when going up a hill on an incline where it is too steep for the next gear to maintain the vehicle speed.  During the old system we would (for example) be climbing a hill in 1st gear and accelerate to about 8mph then shift into second and slowly accelerate to 15mph.  Then we would shift into third and since the engine isn't powerful enough to handle that incline in that gear it would slow down.  At that point we would just downshift to 2nd and stay in that gear until we got over the hill.  The new system does this:  1st gear - accelerate to 8mph.  Shift to second and accelerate to 15mph.  Shift to 3rd and decelerate to 8mph.  Downshift to 2nd and accelerate to 15mph. Upshift to 3rd and decelerate to 8mph. Downshift to 2nd and accelerate to 15mph.  Instead of holding 15mph in second gear instead we are now accelerating to 15 then slowing to 8 then back to 15 and back to 8 and so on and so forth.  Very annoying and some tanks will even come to almost a complete stop before downshifting.  Sure we can tap "W" a few times and gradually accelerate while staying in 2nd gear but if we press it one too many times it upshifts and we have to start all over again.  Also if the hill incline changes then we have to start from scratch.

My solution for this (other than to return to manual shifting) is to just get rid of gears altogether.  With an automatic the whole 'shifting of gears' effect is pretty unnecessary.  Each tank should have it's own max speed and also its own max speed vs. incline type of setting.  In other words you can say a tank has a 24mph limit on level ground, a 20mph limit at a 10% grade, a 12mph limit at a 20% grade, etc etc.  There's no reason we should have to dick around with trying to keep a certain speed while climbing a hill when the whole ShiftW and ShiftS thing is supposed to make this easier.  On a hill we should be able to hit ShiftW and get to the maximum speed that tank can handle with that incline and not have to worry about it.

Offline Gr8pape

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 195
      • Swamp Revel Computers
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2011, 04:43:45 PM »
I would rather try and fail, than not try at all. (paraphrased)
F.D. Roosevelt

Offline Gr8pape

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 195
      • Swamp Revel Computers
Re: GV Automatic Transmissions
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2011, 04:46:13 PM »
You know this for a fact?

Always wondered why it was called a "Torqmatic Transmission".
http://m18hellcat.com/m18hellcat/Home.html

I have had an idea vis a vis a "manual" transmission though.

I mean, what was the old "manual" transmission anyway?
You pressed a button and pushed your stick forward until you topped out and pushed a button again.

My idea is to make a "Manual" transmission option like a stall limiter or prop overspeed thingy in WWI.

You check the "manual transmission" box and, like now, press W to go forward. Unlike the "automatic", you would only accelerate until you reached the top speed in that particular gear. Then, you would need to press another button to "shift" into the next gear, press w again until you topped out in that gear and repeat.

Maybe they could also intoduce engins stalling out if you don't downshift properly as you slow down or if there is too much load on the engine due to going up hill.

You can have your "manual" transmission.    :neener:


wrongway

Okay, so the M18, any other Vehicles, I don't think so.
I would rather try and fail, than not try at all. (paraphrased)
F.D. Roosevelt