a sad, sad day

[icepac]

Bob Hanna at 40 was in better shape than 99% of the population and an elite level athlete but he still blacked out when he experienced something similar.

From the reports about the presence of a data acquisition system and cameras that use memory cards, It's possible that they used the AIM evo4 with smarty cam option which is common on high end race cars or planes and should yield the data and video on a fingernail sized memory card.

[dedalos]

that was/is my point, although i'm trying not to be argumentative in this. just using a rather simple example, i know my 49 year old bellybutton can smoke about 95% of the 20 year olds out there on the tree. this is fact, as i've done it many many times at the track.

 so much for slower reflexes.

  Common CAP.  Did your car lose a major part and you had to respond as fast as possible while the 20 year old lost the same part in the same situation and did not respond as fast?  What are you comparing here?  The speed of your car or your experience?  Yes, experience is a tremendous tool in everything but it will not make up for everything.  Next time you smoke a 20 year old try doing it pulling Gs that would black you out.  Then you can see if your experience will be of any help.  Don;t compare the best of the old with the worst of the young just to make an argument.  49 is not the same as 75 BTW.

I played basket ball for so long I can see the effects every year has on me.  Experience helps a lot but when the 20s start running all I can do is watch lol.  If experience was everything, football players would be great in their 50s and the best quarterbacks would be in their 70  .  

Experience is a tremendous weapon, but it does not make up for everything.  Some time strength is what makes the difference.  Now, if you can combine the two, you end up with the guys between 25 and 35.  There is a reason most athletes reach their prime in that age range.

[CAP1]

broke the wheelie bars on launch. the thing was on its way to being on the bumper......and would've been without quick reflexes.

lost oil pressure(at 131mph). would've lost the entire engine, without quick reflexes.

lost brakes. would've created a nice little pile up without quick reflexes.

 reflexes only get slower, if you allow them to get slower.

[dedalos]

broke the wheelie bars on launch. the thing was on its way to being on the bumper......and would've been without quick reflexes.

lost oil pressure(at 131mph). would've lost the entire engine, without quick reflexes.

lost brakes. would've created a nice little pile up without quick reflexes.

 reflexes only get slower, if you allow them to get slower.

You are missing the point.

[CAP1]

You are missing the point.

 no i'm not. people are trying to allude that his reflexes may have beenan issue(or at least that's what i think is going on). i think, that as golfer(i think), and others have said......no one in that particular situation would have saved that aircraft. and using voodoo's happening isn't this same exact thing.

 none of us are gonna know for sure till the ntsb gets finished.

[Stoney]

If he experienced 10 Gs from that pullup, it wouldn't have mattered if Bruce Jenner in his prime was in the cockpit--he's blacking out and losing control of the aircraft...

[CAP1]

If he experienced 10 Gs from that pullup, it wouldn't have mattered if Bruce Jenner in his prime was in the cockpit--he's blacking out and losing control of the aircraft...

 that's what others have said...and those that have, i tend to think know enough to know what they're talking about, more than the rest of us.

[dedalos]

no i'm not. people are trying to allude that his reflexes may have beenan issue(or at least that's what i think is going on). i think, that as golfer(i think), and others have said......no one in that particular situation would have saved that aircraft. and using voodoo's happening isn't this same exact thing.

 none of us are gonna know for sure till the ntsb gets finished.

Are you answering to me or to them?  Were we talking about young vs old?  I though I was responding to your better a 74 year old with 35 years of experience than a 25 year old with 0.  How did everything else get into our conversation?  We were not even talking about this particular case.

[Shuffler]

The thread is covering a lot of ground. Not just your conversation.

[dedalos]

The thread is covering a lot of ground. Not just your conversation.

The thread is.  Me responding to CAP quoting him is only responding to him.  I thought the same applied to everyone when their text is quoted.

[icepac]

I don't think any of the current stunt pilots are experiencing 10g for anything longer than a second during abrupt direction changes such as snap rolls as the telemetry of routines found in videos rarely shows even 7 sustained G during loops.

I believe galloping ghost may have exceeded 10gs and held a pretty high G loading for at least 5 full seconds.

[FireDrgn]

Are you answering to me or to them?  Were we talking about young vs old?  I though I was responding to your better a 74 year old with 35 years of experience than a 25 year old with 0.  How did everything else get into our conversation?  We were not even talking about this particular case.

The age debate is only possible true. When used in an argument it  is begging the question fallacy. It may not even apply in this case.  I have not seen any quote of the pilots he was racing with.   I would think they would make the best case for or again ts.

The conclusion may or may not be true. It has to be based on known to be true.    In this kind of inductive arguemnt both posistions are knonw to be true at differant times..  I personaly would not get my panties in a wad over this kind of arguemnt.  just saying.

[dedalos]

The age debate is only possible true. When used in an argument it  is begging the question fallacy. It may not even apply in this case. 

Yep.  Talking in general.  Not specifically to the pilot.  Even though I do think that he could not have been in a better shape than a 25 year old pilot ( and please don;t pick the worst possible example of a 25 year old just to make a point), that fact may be irrelevant to the accident.

[Widewing]

If he experienced 10 Gs from that pullup, it wouldn't have mattered if Bruce Jenner in his prime was in the cockpit--he's blacking out and losing control of the aircraft...

This is certainly true. There is a caveat, though... Without exception, the ability of the heart and arteries to flow a volume of blood decreases with age as plaque accumulates. This is a normal byproduct of aging.

However, a reduction in blood flow, even slight, can add critical seconds to GLOC recovery time.

I'm thinking that they may want to have a semi-annual Thallium Stress Test as a requirement for race pilots over 60 years of age. It's easy (I've had one) and can reveal a great deal about one's cardiovascular health and fitness.

[eagl]

I don't think any of the current stunt pilots are experiencing 10g for anything longer than a second during abrupt direction changes such as snap rolls as the telemetry of routines found in videos rarely shows even 7 sustained G during loops.

I believe galloping ghost may have exceeded 10gs and held a pretty high G loading for at least 5 full seconds.

Red Bull racers hit 10+ Gs for the duration of some of their turns.  I've seen a few clips of those guys gray or black out during turns, resulting in bounces.  None of the clips I saw resulted in fatalities but I'm sure that there have been some.  The point being that the Red Bull racing pilots have to pull 10+ Gs during several entire turns to be competitive, so they do.  And some GLOC or gray out.