Author Topic: Where has the AH Luftwaffe gone?  (Read 4596 times)

Offline Fokker

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Where has the AH Luftwaffe gone?
« Reply #105 on: July 18, 2001, 04:03:00 PM »
To make LW more attractive we should get the 110 so that LW gets an effective Jabo AC. As it is today they are limited both with regards to buffs and jabos.

People will leave for other games from time to time, and then return to the best when new games have been exploited.

I have been playing ww2ol a lot lately. Not because it is a better flight sim than AH. As a flight sim ww2ol is a joke compared to AH. What ww2ol has is the best tank sim and the combined forces of air, ground and soon sea. That makes for some great variation.

I am sure to return to AH when I get tired of the tank and infantry. However, for the time being its a lot of fun.

If AH shall keep people from leaving they need to develop other arms to be as good as their flight sim part. If they do that I dont think anyone would be leaving. However, I believe AHs scope is being the best flight sim, and leave the other arms for ww2ol and similar. To make other arms as good as the AH flight sim they will need to change their policy quite much. As I have understood Hitech that is not likely.

With regards to the LW crew, I am sure you would see a lot more of them if we had an axis&allie arena. I am one of those who would love that. You would see me in a 109 quite a lot then.

Offline skernsk

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« Reply #106 on: July 18, 2001, 04:04:00 PM »
The whines come from everywhere. From fans of all types of Aircraft.

This is a good argument Pongo.  Many people complain and get pissed when they have a bad night.

Unfortunately certain people would not stop the constant arguing, and squeaking about their favorite LW plane being modelled incorrectly.  Also, there was the C-Hog argument that went on for way to long.  The people who led the charge are no longer here at this point in time or are flying under different handles.  

I know that I contributed to the flamefest when certain people would start to complain in the BB.  RAM for instance was way out there at the end of his BB squeak sessions...and I just wanted to reach through the computer and strangle the guy because all he was doing was creating a negative atmosphere and stiring up toejam.

My point..and there is one hidden here someplace is that the FEW have fediddleed it up for the rest of the "LW" pilots.  It is hard to get over the stereotype that the dearly departed have left you guys so the first instinct is to go for the jugular......

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: skernsk ]

Offline sling322

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« Reply #107 on: July 18, 2001, 04:09:00 PM »
Shut up Skernsk....you LW pansy!!

Offline skernsk

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« Reply #108 on: July 18, 2001, 04:35:00 PM »
109F4 driver and proud of it.

I get my "training wheels" off soon and my LW wings are on the way!

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #109 on: July 18, 2001, 04:50:00 PM »
Know what I'd like to see?? Another Rumble.. with Santa, Hblair, Regurge or Grun leading it.. workin up the gruppens, organizing the wing pairs, takin care of the propaganda and bringin us a hell of a fight.

Know what I think?? They'd prolly kick our mamby panzie compacent allied opportunist asses.  :)

The current AH LW is not dead.. I think it is, if competently organized to fly this kind of fight, even more dangerous than ever.

I think the current LW pilots have a certain apathy towards the old ones.. and have no intrest in a "hangtime vs hristo" fight w/ all the associated ugly stick hate generated baggage at all.

So..lets get a coupla new CO's; and re-run this thing. I think the hate trip is over.

Fer allied CO, I'd nominate Sancho, Frenchy, Ammo, Thunder, Midnight, Rude, AKNimitz, Nash, Funked, FDski, Mason or Vladd... any of 'em would be better than me.. my war is finished.  :)

Should the 'new' LW come out to play; I'm bettin ther'd be hell to pay.
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Offline Fishu

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« Reply #110 on: July 18, 2001, 05:27:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:


And of course that would be their own fault, we have Check sixes and Snap shots, not tot mention the Big scenarios...

Mainly the game itself, not talking about events.
Did the Hispanos ever change? how much did other cannons change in comparison to Hispano? flight model issues with some planes?

well.. thats for a brief begining of examples which can cause game get boring.

Offline moose

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« Reply #111 on: July 18, 2001, 05:54:00 PM »
Yeah Hangtime, I'd definitely be up for that.

If i had been there for the Rumble you allied nancyboys would have never stood a chance. Mwuhahaha..

109F4 is most underappreciated plane in the game :-) Should be perked.
<----ASSASSINS---->

Offline Thunder

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« Reply #112 on: July 18, 2001, 08:38:00 PM »
I'm so glad... now we can all be freinds again!  :D

 
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Offline Zigrat

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« Reply #113 on: July 18, 2001, 08:42:00 PM »
please fishu, aces high isnt perfect and im not a cheerleade,r but i see you flying over at ww2ol and id have to say ah is leaps ahead of ww2ol in teh flight department

Offline Westy MOL

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« Reply #114 on: July 18, 2001, 09:43:00 PM »
Yeah. Ironic huh?  WW2O's flight part is a joke but because it is the 109 rules the roost. I imagine that makes it ok for some as the ends justify the means. Does anyone think the LW gang will be as demanding and indignant to get the 109 FM changed to be more realistic? Not on your life.

  Westy

Offline Hajo

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« Reply #115 on: July 18, 2001, 10:43:00 PM »
LW term is highly inaccurate in my humble opinion, in describing someone who predominantly flies axis aircraft.  99% of my sorties are in the D9, or any other of the a models fws'in the game.  I wouldn't describe myself as an "LW".  Always flew the a8 in AW because most shied away from it long ago........wanted the challenge, and have been forever "hooked" by the FW.  as for performance of so called LW aircraft versus allied aircraft, they all have good traits and bad, none of them are "uber" in all areas of furballing.  Hear a lot of talk about the "weak" cannon in the 109, and 190 etc.  Truth be known, if you hit something with the MG/151 cannons it will go down.  Yes, the muzzel velocity and firing rate aren't the same as the Hispano etc., but if you hit your target with the 151s' it will go down the same as if you've hit the same target with Hispanos.

Now, as I stated before each craft gives you something that makes it superior to the craft you are engaged with.  And that includes any craft you may be flying, german, Italian, allied etc.  Use what your craft gives you, speed, rate of climb, turn of maneuver, roll rate etc.  don't ask your craft to do something you know dam well it can't do, and know the craft that you are fighting at the moment.  Fight your fight, not your opponents, use what your craft gives you, don't ask it to do something it can't, and all will be fine.

Remember, never get mad at your opponent for shooting you down!  Get angry at yourself for placing yourself in the postion to be shot down!  Your fault, not your opponents.  He just took advantage of the postion you placed yourself!  :eek:
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Offline Glasses

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Where has the AH Luftwaffe gone?
« Reply #116 on: July 18, 2001, 11:20:00 PM »
Westy...I cannot say or compare ever the WW2OL model to the AH model. I haven't but, what many of us done and have been advocates for the FM change over at WW2OL are from the LW contingent. We do not want in this other game an advantage we want more than anyone else a realistic flight envelope with each of the advantages and disadvantages of each aircraft portrayed in the sim.

The new FM in effect well it'll be awkward for a while until the other effects come in later on. Am not saying it will be perfect but it'll slowly improve and if enough people come with data and to be improved upon, they will and are doing so.

Those guys over there are as dedicated to realism in the same level as the next online sim. These guys don't make consessions to gameplay for the most part.

And the fact as is the LW dominates the air in WW2OL is that most of the better more mature knowledgeable guys fly for the Axis side right now. Maybe,  later that will change.

If you by any chance have read my Flight Model thread at the BBS over there , you will read some things that give an unrealistic advantage to the 109 over the spit and vice versa(which are modeled wrong for most of the aircraft).

Most people think that the LW crowd want things to be modeled on their way so it can give us some type of advantage but, it's not that way, we want realism , we don't want unrealistic advantages given to others as well.


After this new patch is released there will be yet another FM revision adding some extra effects to aircraft. So as you see they're really involved into this and dedicated and so am I .

Offline Thunder

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« Reply #117 on: July 18, 2001, 11:51:00 PM »
Excellent Post Hajo!
 SALUTE!  :)

Thunder

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: Thunder ]
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Offline StSanta

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« Reply #118 on: July 19, 2001, 02:22:00 AM »
Hm, well, I *do* believe that if a known luftwobble brings out an issue, it is more likely to be seen as a whine or a complaint than if some unknown made the same comment  - *even* though it is factual. There's been a few threads where there's actually been some data to back claims or assertions up (roll rates, minengeschoss shells to mention two).

Overall, though, I think it comes down to a few problems.

The LW have two really competitive fighters  - the D9 and the G10. I don't fly the hunstang so can say little about it, other than I can't hit with its guns. The G10 is a very fine plane with some obvious and glaring drawbacks, such as control lock up at speed, weak elevator authority and whatnot.

I do believe superior skills and experience allows a pilot to survive a 1945-ish environment in a plane that is a) not a turn fighter and b) old-ish.

Anyway, that the LW is lacking some variety in potent planes is one problem. It has a lot of planes, but the planes themselves with the exception of two really aren't that good. Several pilots who fly 'um (Hblair, SWulfe, Regurge, Hajo, Cit, Camo and the Llv34 boys and others) can do great in 'um - but they'll do great in any plane.

So, the issues that bother *me* as a LW guy is the following:

1) Historical accuracy. I like role playing. It's not geeky. it's something we do every day; when we watch tv, when we play a computer game and whatnot. It's not restricted to being pale white geeks playing Dungeons and Dragons. This hitorical interests leads me to want to be part of  LW only squad and fight *allies*. This is currently only 50% possible in AH.

2) Planeset. There's a couple of very potent fighters, but then again, these are the two that see any real use in the MA. The LW sorely needs a GOOD jabo; the 1908 as it is is actually a poorer choice for jabo than is the D9 or A8; the A8 carries better guns and has better maneuverability and speed, and the D9 does everything better except it has 4 puny 50kg eggs less. The F8 is a heavy dog with little purpose. of course, i fly it *every time* I go jaboing anyhow - because of historical accuracy  :D.

3) The guns. Yes, they didn't have as high a velocity on the rounds as the Allied stuff. They didn't jam as often either. Since jamming isn't modelled, the LW guys are shortchanged on this one. Also, while the hispano get AP/HE/IN in one round, the LW has to do with HE. Or those that argue that it is all three; well, it sure as hell ain't minengeschoss. An argument could also be made that HE would be more efficient against a soft target like a plane, whereas AP wuld continue right through. I've seen demonstration of AP and HE rounds, where they were fred at a building. The AP made a wee little hole, the HE took down a wall.
Also, having to close to 300 or less before guns being effective is a serious drawback; i watched Sancho's Rumble films and was amazed at seeing him opening up at d500 with virtually no lead and still hitting. There's a BIG difference in guns.

4) 1 ping engine outs. Not only the LW guys experience this, and those allies flying the 38 know just what I'm talking about. Extremely annoying

5) Small things, such as "ammo counters". no planes had it during WWII, except LW birds, which didn't have counters, but rather another system that gave the pilot a rough estimate of how much ammo he had left. EAW had it, but HTC have conclusively said that it won't be added to AH. I *really* disagree with this decision, but I suspect it has to do with the fact that were it to change, HTC would have to redo every cockpit to accomodate the changes in a pretty fashion.

And lastly, the 109 vs 109/n1k/f4u thingie.

You'll notice that most of these issues are personal preference. Currently, I am still having fun with AH (although much less because I have NO ONE TO FLY WITH). I *hope* that AH will evolve towards MY personal preferences.

Offline Fokker

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Where has the AH Luftwaffe gone?
« Reply #119 on: July 19, 2001, 02:29:00 AM »
Obviously some comments here by people who has not used the spit in WW2OL. A good spit pilot will down every 109 in WW2OL as easy as pankake. The spit in WW2OL has a huge advantage in view, and since about all pilots in WW2OL seem to turnfight in a horizontal turn manouver, the experienced pilot will have a ball in WW2OL  :)

In addition you can do the most careless manouvers in WW2OL and not worry about spin or stall. That FM is very far from realistic. Its very simplified compared to AH.

If you want to fly a real flight sim, then you fly AH. If you just want some fun and like to shoot easy targets, you may as well fly WW2OL.

LtData out for now  :)