Author Topic: Where has the AH Luftwaffe gone? (Read 4593 times)

Glasses · « **Reply #120 on:** July 19, 2001, 04:41:00 AM »

Santa BTW where's my OP Flashpoint

Hajo · « **Reply #121 on:** July 19, 2001, 07:47:00 AM »

Role Playing: If one wishes to simulate being a Luftwaffe Pilot go ahead! Heck, it's fun! You pay your money just as everyone else does so do what you want. That is one feature of flight sim diversity, and one of the reasons we all are here. We have a fine squad in AH that features P-47s', the 56th FG, if that adds to the enjoyment of AH then by all means use roll playing mode to make it more enjoyable!

I myself, serveral years ago took the name "Hajo". Reason being one would expect someone with that name to appear in the Sim in a LW aircraft. That explains my on-line "persona" nicely. I wouldn't expect someone named Bong to be flying a Macchi 205. StSanta, by his cpid, or nickname I would expect to see in a LW aircraft, Yeager, I would expect to see in a P-51. But that's just how the game is configured in my eyes. Doesn't mean of course that someone else sees it the same way though. We can all, in a somewhat limited manner configure this sim to suit our tastes, without infringing on someones elses idea of what it "should" be. Thats' a great feature of online flight sims. We pay our money, and do what we want with it.

The keyword is "fun". Do what you want to do to make the game more enjoyable to you! If you want to simulate LW squadrons do so! If you want to have an all P-38 squad, P-47 etc do so! Make it fun! It's easy to do, and no one can tell you how you should play. You pay your 30 dollars, do what's fun for you and your squaddies. I would expect all to do the same

maik · « **Reply #122 on:** July 19, 2001, 08:05:00 AM »

What Stsanta said!!!!

maik

P.S.: call me if ya need a wingman StSanta

lazs1 · « **Reply #123 on:** July 19, 2001, 08:37:00 AM »

Ok let me simplify.... What is good for the LW in a game is bad for everyone else and vice versa.

A perfect example, and the REAL reason for the exodus of the worst of the leather fetish phony nazi crybabies is... the change to a more realistic FM from 1.03... Yep that's pretty much how it goes.... The LW planes were as apache says, hunters (and as st santa says long in the toth hunters at that).

Face it... LW planes are not good low level dogfiters for the vast majority of players but....In 1.03 all the planes were mired in muck and unable to avoid the B&z of even the clumsy LW aircraft.

The real pain in the butt, arrogant bragart faux nazi's were so thick that they needed to divide some of their squads in half cause they were so full... their incessant bragging about how "skilled" they were pissed people off who knew what the difference.

When 1.04 came and with it a much more realistic FM, the lufwhiners went from arrogant to full blown crybabie.... Their precious master race aircraft no longer performed like the romance novels and pap biographies they read themselves to sleep with... they countered with.... Loud screams and threats to hold their breath till they turned blue.... Their "facts" about LW planes consisted of embarassing myth and outright bogus information (the electrically fired LW guns were the least reliable ignition system in WWII and .50's had a true jam rate of like 1 round in 5,000 for instance).

I suppose we all roleplay to a certain extent but I have never felt I was a marine pilot in WWII while virtually flying an AH corsair... I have never felt that I was any kind of pilot while flying any plane in AH... Flight sims are more challenging and comples than first person shooters is all.

I think taking real WWII personas is insulting to those brave men.... I especially think that taking on a LW persona is insulting, distasteful and.... cowardly. Yep, most of the real LW is dead or VERY quite... Those who would pretend to be affilated with them in a parody of the real LW do so knowing that no one will slap them down for their blasphemy.... I think the allied gus are allmost as silly but they know that they better use a little restraint.

If you are one of the quiet ones who likes to fly LW ac and doesn't role play in a distasteful and childish way then most of the things I, or others have said in this thread do not apply.
lazs

Westy MOL · « **Reply #124 on:** July 19, 2001, 09:12:00 AM »

CC Hajo good posts. I think we have two different discussions going here by several parties.
Some are talking about people who fly predominately one nationality of aircraft. Another (ME) are talking about a sub group of those who are radicval and base most of their complaints on thier percieved favorite aircrafts shortcomins on conspiracy, another aircrafts attitributes and historical anecdotes from Uncle Hanz. IMO the term is for someone who struts around the text buffer online or in the forumns like a little Goering blaming everything and everyone else for thier problems; "laser hispanos" "b29 laser ranging buff guns" being just two examples. It's when the role playing stops being a role or thier real life personality, with thier bigotry and racism, show through that it becomes a problem. And that has happened several times here, in AW and in WB's over the years.

Fokker, the Spit has .303's not 20mm cannon so the 109E outguns them all right now. Sure, a good pilot can get kills in a Spit, they can get kills in anything. But that goes for anywhere be it there, here, WB, AW or FA. And given the lack of a six view in WW2O the favourite to bet on is the experienced boom &zoom player. Will have to see what they do to the FM but tweaking somehting so far out in left field doesn't make me think it'll be drastically changed. Just that, tweaked. They have to fill that customer base and it won't be done by tryint to appeal to the grognards and realism cravers that's for sure.

Glasses, I saw your post there. Well written and articulate. (A rarity on those boards actually) Sad to say I can't say the same for alot of the respondants to you but, hey, it is the WW2O boards, no?

My point on that was I do not see Fishu, Hristu, RAM, Staga, Jekyll (especially Jekyll for some reason. he was such a thorn here (*many* good points but he went so sour) but he lets WW2O slide. lol. oh wait. It's in beta <eye roll> ) or the many other players who were so adamant and vocal here, doing the same there or on any of the other WW2O oriented boards, at all. I do not think CRS is as dedicated to realism as many of it's fan base think they are. The numbers online over there have dropped through to the basement and if you took a sampling of those online and on the webboards you'll find they want fun over function. Sure some want realism. To them I <S> and say Happy dreams. but they are the very, very small minority there. And they need several tens of thousands/b] of customers to make that work. There's already been consessions and there will be more. I can guarantee it.

StSanta, we ALL have wishes for more planes and more than not most uf us want more from every nationality. Other wise I'ld say you have a good list of issues to be looked at by HTC, just as many other flyers of specific planes do. But the LW primary Jabo, the 190-F8 "is a heavy dog with little purpose." Wasn' it that in real life?? Where as the P-47 and P-38 were born interceptors and fighters turned Jabo was not the 190-F8 built specifically to be a Jabo? More armour etc etc?? Maybe Kurt should have copied the P-35 and not the Hughes H1
But as for the guns? Of course Sancho can nail someone at the range he did even if you percieve no effort on his part to do so. That's kind of a "diss" at the guy when he's been flying the P-47 here for at least a year and he damn well should be able to tell when and how far to shoot at a bogy with those far reaching .50's If you want neutered guns for playability then WB's and WW2O is for you ("you" being anyone who wants "play" over real not you StSanta specifically). In these games/sims we all have an unbelievable advantage in being able to re-fly every time we get shot down or crash. Each flight and every pull of the trigger we learn and improve. When I fly the Yak I have to close to less than 300 to pull the trigger. I like 100-200 maximum, because it has a small ammo load, I only have one cannon and the MG's are worhtless. You don't see me or other Yak flyers squeaking. It's reality. Just deal with it. Same with those who fly the Zeke and Macchi 202. As for the type of ammo being used? Keep working at it if it's such an ussue for you untill you get an answer or a change from HTC. Squeeky wheel gets the grease. Just don't squeek in an irritating or obnixious manner as that won't get the desired results at all for sure.
The one ping engine out? I agree. Happens with other planes too but with the 190 it seems a given that is what will happen. My goal to fly the 190 last tour went to hell when I found that ack and other guns give too quick of a sudden stop to that prop up front. It is as bad as the glass elevator on the P-38. I do not wish to fly either till those are fixed. But thier are plenty of planes to try and use....

Anyway, enough from me this a.m. Damn wall o'text.

Westy

[ 07-19-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]

SOB · « **Reply #125 on:** July 19, 2001, 10:01:00 AM »

Quit whining StSanta! LuftWhiner.

SOB

hblair · « **Reply #126 on:** July 19, 2001, 12:53:00 PM »

eddiek, do I make this check out to "ed" or "eddie" khuen?

Fishu · « **Reply #127 on:** July 20, 2001, 12:31:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zigrat:
please fishu, aces high isnt perfect and im not a cheerleade,r but i see you flying over at ww2ol and id have to say ah is leaps ahead of ww2ol in teh flight department

Krhm, I havent been playing WWII OL for at least two weeks (thats when I got OFP)
I did also got bored to AH long time before I had a chance to get my hands on WWII OL, so your point is unvalid here since WWII OL has not changed my opinions towards AH in any manner, nor have I used it to compare with AH.
(I haven't played AH for at least half an year, thats way before I got to try WWII OL)

If we go into comparison, then I'd have to say that WWII OL has some good things that AH does not have and doesn't seem to ever have.
Also Mo has stated that flight model isn't yet done in WWII OL, so I'll wait with final judgement.
Good thing is that there seems to be different stall behavior for the planes and 109 actually has the slats.
In AH, every plane tends to stall same, but at different speeds and different stick force... which has been bugging me since the begining.
like 109 stalls like other planes, just at different speed and with more nose heavyness than others. (and its highly hyped slats are hyped to make stalls different)

imho, I liked more of 1.03 FM than current, at least then E fightning was more crucial, although, overmodelled.
Now I feel it slightly bit too relaxed.

Again if we go in comparison with WWII OL, I like the way how fights are fought close in, rather than from at 800 yards AH/WB/DOA/AW style.
So im wishing for flight models to get better in WWII OL, it would be really that what I'd like - close in fights with 'pea shots'

although, lets note again that I got bored to AH already months ago, before WWII OL had any meaning to me and even after WWII OL, I still have same reasons for AHs boredom.

R4M · « **Reply #128 on:** July 21, 2001, 09:00:00 AM »

In HS three pilots of 9/JG54, got a total of 34 kills (I think) participating in a grand total of 9 frames flown by them three.

I dont know how many kills got the rest of the squad,AFAIK there are quite a lot, but I dont know exactly how many. Still, those three got 34. In 9 frames. Against a more numerous enemy. This is not to brag, just to illustrate what I think.

Two of them are out of AH at this moment, the third is still here because his prettythang is to heavy to be moved elsewhere

. Now no pun intended to the LW dedicated guys in AH, but I cant think of anyone else flying LW iron as skilled as the ones who made of those planes such killing machines during more than 18 months.

The point is that the people I saw as the elite of LW planes in AH, is gone. Kirin. Hasqueak. Hazed (The things this guy could do with a Ju88 were amazing). Glasses.VoX. Nath. Wilbus. Naudet...and a long etcetera.

Mind you, there are new sticks and I'm sure many of them will grow to be great virtual pilots. But the elite is gone, at least is how I see it. The quality of the guys who have gone is enormous.

As for the personal attacks and the sistematic anti-LW campaign, it is clear that the untolerant people are the ones who "dominate" the voice of this community.

I wont repeat what I've said a lot of times already because there is no reason to do it, and it wont solve anything anyway. But the fact remains that there is a collective of paying AH customers with a preferences for a determinate nationality of planes, namely the German. That collective is repeatedly,sistematically insulted, and treated like toejam just because they like what they like and they want to feel something more than a furball game, they want to fly in a realistic environment where they represent the Luftwaffe. For that they are called everything ranging from LuftWhiner to Nazis.

The attacks wich that people suffer from some individuals are something noone can excuse. Yet this thread shows that INDEED the community here excuse it. And supports the offensive individuals. So be it...but then dont feel insulted when people says out there that this community is a rough one and a very unpolite one. With the rudeness one can feel in this board, where rarely you can find a single thread without a personal attack, that fame is well earned.

Regards.

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

Fatty · « **Reply #129 on:** July 21, 2001, 09:40:00 AM »

Hblair is.

And I've yet to hear a sour complaint from him, in over a year and a half.

Westy MOL · « **Reply #130 on:** July 21, 2001, 09:59:00 AM »

"But the elite is gone..."

A legend in his own mind.
Do ego's really grow that big in Europe or is it an aquired cultural thing?

Westy

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]

R4M · « **Reply #131 on:** July 21, 2001, 10:13:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fatty:
Hblair is.

And I've yet to hear a sour complaint from him, in over a year and a half.

FROM him?, wtf has that to do with what I'm saying?...I say that people gets insulted here because they like to fly LW, and I can give you links to threads where his affiliation to LW was enough for someone to insult him.

Quote

"But the elite is gone..."

A legend in his own mind.
Do ego's really grow that big Europe or is it an aquired cultural thing?

The LW elite is gone. Like it or not. Show me three guys flying in the same squad who gets the success 9/JG54 had in HS,34 kills in 9 flown frames, for 2 deaths, and then I'll say that the elite are THEM.

Anyway that was just my view. I've known many people who were real demons in a 109 or 190 in AH. Some are still here. Most of them are out. Extract your own conclussions. But if you say that people like NathBDP, Santa, Kirin, Habicht, Wilbus, et all, do NOT represent the best bunch of virtual LW pilots
who has ever flown in AH (and IMO the best overall,LW or not LW aswell) then you are plain blind.

This has nothing to do with egos, but with factual data. Take a look at the K/D ratios owned by the people I've named when they were flying in AH and tell me they are not highly skilled pilots. Granted, some of the "old guard" LW aces are here. Most of the Assassins, with Hblair at the head...but the major part is gone.

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

Fatty · « **Reply #132 on:** July 21, 2001, 10:15:00 AM »

Ram, there is not a systematic persecution of german flyers. There is however a systematic ridicule of silly elitism and incessant whining.

R4M · « **Reply #133 on:** July 21, 2001, 10:23:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fatty:
Ram, there is not a systematic persecution of german flyers.

I disagree and I think I'm not the only one. But there is no use in discussing it all over again. It would be no good.

Regarding what you call "the silly elitism", why is silly?. What if some people wants to take this game seriously?. Does that make him silly?. Why?.

Of course I can remind you that LW squads are not the only ones who tend towards elitism. Curious thing is that the others do not get the protagonism while the LW ones do.

Well, better leave this where it is. As I said further discussion would mean no good.

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

Fatty · « **Reply #134 on:** July 21, 2001, 10:27:00 AM »

Funny, I've never, ever been confronted by it. Perhaps I'm not flying german planes the correct way?

Maybe you could show me? Because I feel left out, not being persecuted and all.

As far as silly elitism, I would think stomping off in a huffy and hanging around trying to make that out to be the community's loss would qualify quite nicely.

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Fatty ]