Teh Hordez

[WYOKIDIII]

You've been here for how long?  "Game has always been this way" comment is based on how much time?

Outside a few gaps here and there , since '05 .

[kilo2]

You never catch the dragon.

[icepac]

I see enemy horde as an indicator that they are vulnerable elsewhere.

[SmokinLoon]

I see enemy horde as an indicator that they are vulnerable elsewhere.

oooohhhhhh..... this one is bright!  Confucius say you have hands in pockets and feel dingy!   

[The Fugitive]

No. Your over thinking the problem . If you want a swirling mass of planes roughly equal , that requires 2 hordes meeting , so go fly with hordes . If you take the time to study your map you won't ever get into an 8v1 unless you choose to . If neither of these is what you want...go to the DA . Outside of this just quit . The game has ALWAYS been this way and it always will . Adapt or move on . But from your response I gather you don't realize the fun of doing your best in a fight you cannot possibly win . Challenges aren't for everyone .

The only fights....if thats what you want to call them... ARE 8-1. Anything else you spot on the map is called "buff chasing" which while it can be a challenge, get boring after you shoot down a dozen or so. The issue is there are VERY few small fights any more. A squad of 6 or 8 attack a base?  LOL!!! not these days!

I've gotta say, I've played for nearly 6 years, and I really don't remember all the hording. Perhaps time has blured the details, but it seems like a more recent phenomenon, like within the past 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 years.


That being said, I really don't see the point to winning the war, or even pushing very hard to take land. You can never 'win' the game, since there is no end goal to achieve, and the only reward you get for 'winnenz teh warz!' is about a couple of hours to a day's worth of perks, and a message saying 'you have won the war'.

But oh the cost! How many innocent fights were slain in their mad attempts to conquor the arena   ?!

There has ALWAYS been hordes. Remember the BOPs? the LCA, and a few others. The difference is today it's the norm, back then it was an annoyance that popped up on Sunday night.

Smokin'

I am no Snailman, but I would suggest that you look at the real numbers that we can draw conclusions from.  I don't dismiss what you propose.  I am merely pointing out the facts are not on your side.

1) The reason that the white flag and 50% town was brought into play was the stagnant maps that were never reset by players.  That along with the numerous arrows pointing to the unintended consequences of redesign of damaged buildings (in contrast to undamaged buildings), about 50 more structures in town, and the addition of hills and hedges that impeded ground level verification on town status.

2) Take the data on bases captured under the pre - "new" town, compare it to the already tested 100 % no flagged "new" town.  Hands down the base captures went FLAT!  I remember the week the new towns, and vehicle bases came out.  The capture crowd learned quickly.  Their immediate answer was the NOE raid, or in other words HORDE.  So, the cries  started  ".... why do you win the warz type ruin the game?"  << NEVER AGREED WITH THIS

3) When HTC made a GOOD decision to make the traditional town capture easier 50% and with white flag, the maps were being reset again by players (even when we had split arenas).  On top of the resets, the GAME PLAY was diverse.  You had hordes from missions and defenders, but you also had multiple fights involving all 3 countries in just about every area of the map.  But this was not good enough    >>>> A small group could affect the outcome of the war  <<<<  The horror you say 

4) Making things more stagnant again?  Smokin' you have a long way to go to convince me this is what will help to keep subscriptions.  What I do think would be both more challenging and fun, is more things to target that would affect base capibilities.  We used to be able to pork fuel to 25%.  Instead of country wide ENY, find a comprehensive way to affect ENY in areas saturated with friendlies already.  Those sort of things that can give a player something to contribute to in offense or defense, besides being the 10th plane to cap a deacked airfield.

The reason I believe HTC reduced the town flag to 50% is because the average player today is to stupid to use tactics to attack a base and so uses a horde. I think they hoped smaller hordes would be used, instead we got a faster moving horde. With the hordes that run today they could hit 3 bases at once, and most likely capture 2 or the 3 with the same number of people they have. The reason they don't is because it takes planning, and timing. People are in too much of a hurry to capture the next base to slow down and THINK of how to work on 3 at once. They have found a quick easy way to crush a base and capture it, why change now?

[lunatic1]

just a thought---if the bish are hording a map then the rooks and knights should work togeather to break it up.not to take a base mind you just to break up the hord.then go back to normal--it's usually the v-tard's that start the hord..but if any one country ups a hord then the other 2 country's should break it up and eventually maybe the hords will stop.but if a hord is considered 20 people,what do you do if a squad has 20 people in and they r all there----actually i don't think there is anything that can be done about it----another thought just came to mind as i am typing this--this game is based pretty much based on ww2 ideas--now bomber groups bombing citys and bases in ww2 would they be considered hords

[matt]

 go to midwar arena if u want one on one

[Lusche]

-actually i don't think there is anything that can be done about it----another thought just came to mind as i am typing this--this game is based pretty much based on ww2 ideas--now bomber groups bombing citys and bases in ww2 would they be considered hords

Maybe "hords" would be tolerated more if they were actually forming regular level bombing raids with proper escorts attacking strategic targets deep in enemy territory instead of just flattening front line bases and often killing the fight in the process?  

But then I do remember exactly this happening and still seeing a lot of complaints about those "horders" and "scoremonkeys" (oh, the irony!), instead of being glad they did offer a battle and something different from the old smash'n'grab routine... 

[lunatic1]

i agree,your right,thats it 100% if only---that's the way it used to be---the good ole days

[Rob52240]

just a thought---if the bish are hording a map then the rooks and knights should work togeather to break it up.not to take a base mind you just to break up the hord.then go back to normal--it's usually the v-tard's that start the hord..but if any one country ups a hord then the other 2 country's should break it up and eventually maybe the hords will stop.but if a hord is considered 20 people,what do you do if a squad has 20 people in and they r all there----actually i don't think there is anything that can be done about it----another thought just came to mind as i am typing this--this game is based pretty much based on ww2 ideas--now bomber groups bombing citys and bases in ww2 would they be considered hords

20 people working as a group is a bad thing?  This is a WW2 Simulation and WW2 had large numbers of everything, everywhere.  My suggestion is to figure out some tactics to deal with your so called hordez, get back in the game and have fun.

I think 1 aspect of 'too many' people working together is no fun and overlooked.  It also helps limit the duration and size of said hordez.   
If you're in a group that keeps outnumbering and devastating the enemy wherever it goes it gets boring.  It's not much fun to load up a plane with bombs, fly to your destination and have nothing to shoot at or drop bombs on.

I'd also like to point out that you rarely see air combat groups like the Jokers, Kommando Nowotny, Loco Busters etc.. complaining about too many people to shoot at.  They just work a target rich environment into their tactics.

It's also a lot easier to defend a base than capture one so I say if people must complain, complain about the people who just roll over for anything they feel they can't stop because "there's no point in even trying."

[coombz]

You never catch the dragon.

  

[wil3ur]

Just wanted to restate, this wasn't exactly a squeak about the horde...  It was more stating my shock and disbelief at the attitudes and statements of those within the horde.

You're never gonna get rid of hand holders...  but the way they stated their goals, it was not to win the war, it was to 'make people quit the game'.  That in my opinion is borderline harassment, and I think HTC should have a chat with the guys who were spewing that garbage on channel.

[BaldEagl]

I was playing against the Nits last night in the NE corner of the map.  There were some decent fights going on up there; fighter vs fighter, fighter vs buff, CV vs CV... pretty much anything you wanted.  Three bases were being contested at the same time with 4-5 bases involved so it was pretty spread out.  Sometimes one side outnumbered the other but it flip flopped.

Guess you were just playing on the wrong side of the map.

[lunatic1]

20 people working as a group is a bad thing?  This is a WW2 Simulation and WW2 had large numbers of everything, everywhere.  My suggestion is to figure out some tactics to deal with your so called hordez, get back in the game and have fun.

I think 1 aspect of 'too many' people working together is no fun and overlooked.  It also helps limit the duration and size of said hordez.   
If you're in a group that keeps outnumbering and devastating the enemy wherever it goes it gets boring.  It's not much fun to load up a plane with bombs, fly to your destination and have nothing to shoot at or drop bombs on.

I'd also like to point out that you rarely see air combat groups like the Jokers, Kommando Nowotny, Loco Busters etc.. complaining about too many people to shoot at.  They just work a target rich environment into their tactics.

It's also a lot easier to defend a base than capture one so I say if people must complain, complain about the people who just roll over for anything they feel they can't stop because "there's no point in even trying."

man a horde can flatten and  take  a v-base or a airbase in 5 minutes-how do u defend against that--i've seen it plenty of times it's not easy to defend a base against a horde of 20 or more planes

[Chilli]

One of the reasons I believe HTC reduced the town flag to 50% is because the average player today is too impatient to use precision tactics to attack a base and so they join a larger group. I think they (HTC) hoped smaller groups would be used, instead we got a faster moving larger group. With the groups that run today, they could hit 3 bases at once, and most likely capture 2 or the 3 with the same number of people they have. The reason they don't is because it takes (patience) planning, and timing.
(Fugi, I made some PC changes so I could agree with your post  )
People are in too much of a hurry to capture the next base to slow down and THINK of how to work on 3 at once. They have found a quick easy way to crush a base and capture it.

Why change now?

Where did the term "game changer" originate?  In any case it should be applicable here.  Large organised groups of players working together is a "game changer" if nothing else fits the term.  The only proven effective "game changer" that empowered the smaller groups has been the lower town %. 

Yet HTC could lead a horse to water, but they can't make it think.   "Why", because when we had 50% towns white flagged, a loud whine encouraged HTC to increase difficulty in acquiring a capture, overwhelmingly favoring the large, crushing groups.  If they hadn't, smaller precision teams could have spread their resources far and wide and captured the territories left undermanned by the swarm.  Effectively the precision teams COULD roll more bases in the same amount of time = end of story. 

The reason this is not applicable now, as many seem to believe, is simple.  The success rate of small groups in base capture is extremely low due to time constraints and resources needed.  So, add to the frustration of losing a base to a huge "crushing" force, 3 out of every 4 small missions that you are lucky enough to assemble are ground to a hault.  So, effectively the large crushing force is still is ahead capturing 4 bases to your 2 or 3.  Which speaks to the OP's objection to the "crushing" mindset of the players, who depend on their tactics demoralizing any defense.