How do you approach a Spit?

[Midway]

I don't understand the hate some planes get.....I love all prop planes that's one of the things that peaked my interest in this game....

how could you not like a spit....man the are beautiful, sleek, deadly....great planes.

there are NO such things as dweeb planes, just dweeb pilots.

 

[uptown]

I don't understand the hate some planes get.....I love all prop planes that's one of the things that peaked my interest in this game....

how could you not like a spit....man the are beautiful, sleek, deadly....great planes.

there are NO such things as dweeb planes, just dweeb pilots.

Right on man! The 51 is a perfect example of this hate the plane thing. SKatSr had a saying when I'd be yelling about a guy on my 6. "just turn around and kill him" he'd say These 51 guys out there that run from every bad situation would be surprised at how many times that actually works in their favor. The plane does what the pilot tells it to do.

[Tank-Ace]

Yeah, I agree for once.



Ink, I hate spitfires because they are probably the easiest planes to fly decently in combat. I hadn't been in one for well over 6 months and had only flown them a bare handfull of times before that (almost certinaly less than 50 sorties in all spitfire models over the course of 6 years. And if I were being concervative, I would say less than 30), hopped in a spit and proceded to get 2 kills in a single sortie.


And even though the spitfires are very easy to fly, there are still some intermediate and high-level pilots that fly the spitfire. It seems like cheating almost to be a good pilot and then go fly a pair of training wheels like the spitifre. Even the 109K, likely the best 109 out there, requires a good bit of skill to fly effectivly.


And they don't look beautiful, they look refined at best, I would even say they look plain. Theres a simple beauty to be had in the look of raw power and speed the US fighters project, or the deadly, predatory grace German iron displays.

But smooth curves? I can find those on my girlfriend. With planes? Beauty in functionality I always say.

And if a plane has a VERY high percentage of dweeb pilots....... I mean doesn't that kind of indicate that its a good plane for dweebs, and hence is a dweeb-plane?

[JOACH1M]

<Facepalm> I'm not even going to get into this...

[ink]

Yeah, I agree for once.



Ink, I hate spitfires because they are probably the easiest planes to fly decently in combat. I hadn't been in one for well over 6 months and had only flown them a bare handfull of times before that (almost certinaly less than 50 sorties in all spitfire models over the course of 6 years. And if I were being concervative, I would say less than 30), hopped in a spit and proceded to get 2 kills in a single sortie.


And even though the spitfires are very easy to fly, there are still some intermediate and high-level pilots that fly the spitfire. It seems like cheating almost to be a good pilot and then go fly a pair of training wheels like the spitifre. Even the 109K, likely the best 109 out there, requires a good bit of skill to fly effectivly.


And they don't look beautiful, they look refined at best, I would even say they look plain. Theres a simple beauty to be had in the look of raw power and speed the US fighters project, or the deadly, predatory grace German iron displays.

But smooth curves? I can find those on my girlfriend. With planes? Beauty in functionality I always say.

And if a plane has a VERY high percentage of dweeb pilots....... I mean doesn't that kind of indicate that its a good plane for dweebs, and hence is a dweeb-plane?

no I disagree, noobs are not dweebs, most noobs fly spits.....

yes I do agree that a vet in a spit is a very dangerous thing and it is almost to easy, now if that vet is vulching and ganging in a spit he is a dweeb, but if he is out there fighting all odds, I don't care what he flies....heck I don't care what anyone flies, as long as they fight, even then I don't care, I just wont have respect for them ingame.


the plane is just a tool, it is the pilot that controls the plane...

take a 190-P51- any BnZ expert...if they attack me and only BnZ me I will respect that person, he is using the tool the way it was meant to be used,   now if they make one pass, climb away and wait till I am engaged, well I wont think so highly of them....if they are aggressively BnZing me, I appreciate that.....and can respect it.

I don't BnZ.... I fight all odds, never run away,until I am bingo,  I am here to fight, that's not to say I don't use the KI's climbing ability to the fullest extent possible, especially when the numbers are overwhelming....

  I don't care what anyone flies...what is the point? it is their game...they have 100% right to fly and fight the way they see fit, the way that makes them happy......more power to them...

  I truly don't care about the war...the points....the score....my cartoon dieing...I just want to fight....and make people fear when they see a KI


just wish I could get the dam targeting down 

[Bruv119]

Yeah, I agree for once.



Ink, I hate spitfires because they are probably the easiest planes to fly decently in combat. I hadn't been in one for well over 6 months and had only flown them a bare handfull of times before that (almost certinaly less than 50 sorties in all spitfire models over the course of 6 years. And if I were being concervative, I would say less than 30), hopped in a spit and proceded to get 2 kills in a single sortie.


And even though the spitfires are very easy to fly, there are still some intermediate and high-level pilots that fly the spitfire. It seems like cheating almost to be a good pilot and then go fly a pair of training wheels like the spitifre. Even the 109K, likely the best 109 out there, requires a good bit of skill to fly effectivly.


And they don't look beautiful, they look refined at best, I would even say they look plain. Theres a simple beauty to be had in the look of raw power and speed the US fighters project, or the deadly, predatory grace German iron displays.

But smooth curves? I can find those on my girlfriend. With planes? Beauty in functionality I always say.

And if a plane has a VERY high percentage of dweeb pilots....... I mean doesn't that kind of indicate that its a good plane for dweebs, and hence is a dweeb-plane?

some smart arse German once called the Spitfire a "toy",   little did he realise what Mitchell had created,  a machine that defined a nations un-broken spirit and delivered savage blows to the Luftwaffe in every theatre of the war.   But yes some other Countries planes are good just not in the same league.       

[Tank-Ace]

The spitfire hardly defined England's 'unbroken spirit'. Even saying that it exemplifies that spirit is greatly stretching a point.

I mean the UK had at one point, what, like 50 operational spitfires during the Battle of Britain, while the Hurricanes bore the brunt of the work? No matter how laughable giving so fearsome a name to so sedate a fighter is, it sounds as though you ought to be praising the Hurricane over the Spitfire.



Or did you mean to say it defined the spirit of letting the USA bear the brunt of the work later on in the war?

[mtnman]

Help...  and...  Training...

The spits really aren't all that fearful for the most part.  I certainly wouldn't class them as any more or less "dweeby" than anything else...

For the most part, I consider them very kill-able if they're alone or only with one other one (co-alt or above me).  The approach and defense strategies I use on them really don't differ much from the ones I use on anything else.  I may adjust the speed, size, or shape of my maneuvers a bit here and there, depending upon the situation, but I do that for all of the other planes as well.  I even adjust things by the moment, and may change things up several times in the same fight.

For the most part, I think that it's a mistake to worry too much about the plane type you're fighting.  I certainly wouldn't consider it a good idea to change tactics too much, or to develop "plane-specific" tactics.

That may be due in large part to the fact that many of the fights I experience in AH are very similar, and often progress in a predictable manner.  The "details" may vary, but the overall fights are often pretty similar.  Most people will never be able to make their plane excel at the things that make it different than the rest of the plane-set.  IMO, that makes it a mistake to get too carried away worrying about the plane-type you're fighting.

You're better off, IMO, to worry about the pilot.  Beat him, and you'll beat his plane.

Now, I do take into account some basic differences...  Faster than me, slower than me, better accel, or climb, or "xyz" than me...  I have those loosely in mind, but I don't necessarily "fly" to those strengths/weaknesses based on plane-type.  Just because he's in a faster plane doesn't mean he's faster than me right now, or that he'll ever be able to use that aspect in this fight.

From my time as a trainer, I found that most people who had trouble with a certain type of plane just needed to change their tactics a little bit to overcome that.

[JOACH1M]

Spits were in high demand in BoB, and played an equal role as the Hurricanes. The spits fought off the Me's and the hurricanes stuck with the bombers. The spits couldn't have done without the help of hurricanes and hurricanes couldn't have done it without the help of spits.

The spit was designed to be able to counter the 109 and protect it's country and it did that and exceeded expectations.

[BaldEagl]

The spitfire hardly defined England's 'unbroken spirit'. Even saying that it exemplifies that spirit is greatly stretching a point.

I mean the UK had at one point, what, like 50 operational spitfires during the Battle of Britain, while the Hurricanes bore the brunt of the work? No matter how laughable giving so fearsome a name to so sedate a fighter is, it sounds as though you ought to be praising the Hurricane over the Spitfire.



Or did you mean to say it defined the spirit of letting the USA bear the brunt of the work later on in the war?

   Wow.

[coombz]

He thought I meant spelling when I mentioned his incredibly stupid posts 

[Tank-Ace]

He thought I meant spelling when I mentioned his incredibly stupid posts  

Spelling and grammar being the largest flaws in my posts (damn near the ONLY flaws in my posts, on most occations), logicly, those are the two most likely reason you would find my posts 'stupid'.



And I find it quite interesting that you seem to be the only one that holds such an oppinion. It suggests that the problem is on your end, rather than mine.

[PFactorDave]

I may adjust the speed, size, or shape of my maneuvers a bit here and there, depending upon the situation, but I do that for all of the other planes as well.  I even adjust things by the moment, and may change things up several times in the same fight.

I find this interesting.  I was wondering if you maybe could provide a few examples of "you see him doing X" so "you do Y to adjust your speed, size, or shape of your manuevers".  I think it might be useful for some of us to have some examples of you you apply your thinking to a fight.  Unfortunately, general statements are hard for some of us to apply.

[FLS]

I find this interesting.  I was wondering if you maybe could provide a few examples of "you see him doing X" so "you do Y to adjust your speed, size, or shape of your manuevers".  I think it might be useful for some of us to have some examples of you you apply your thinking to a fight.  Unfortunately, general statements are hard for some of us to apply.

You want specific answers to general questions. It's best to learn the general principles and practice applying them to specific instances.

[PFactorDave]

You want specific answers to general questions. It's best to learn the general principles and practice applying them to specific instances.

Damn right I do, so do the rest of the less experienced guys reading this.  We don't know the questions either.  Tell us about the "General principles and how to apply them!   We're hoping for more then the usual "practice and don't suck so much answers".  Quit assuming that we know what you are talking about.  Quit expecting that until we are able to even schedule several hours with trainers so that you can even talk to us...


This is the Training BBS, do us noobs a favor and talk us through scenarios...  Quit trying to wow us with rhetoric...


You know...  I know that air combat is a complex affair.  But then again, I have always felt that some of the general answers offered up are nothing more then the more talented folks telling the less talented folks to, "Get better at it."

Well....  duh...

I try to learn.  I watch films of more gifted pilots every chance I get.  I fight in the MA.  I fight when I have an advantage.  I fight when there is no advantage.  I fight at a disadvantage.  Heck, I'm not the worst dogfighter in Aces High.  

I will continue to learn general principles by attempting to apply them.  By watching those who apply them well...  Gleaning what I can...  By schedulng sessions with trainers...  etc etc  The same as I always have...

Why is it so hard for the experten to understand that more specific, "He is doing this, so I am going to try this...  because of..."  would be more useful then, "Practice and get better"?

For god's sake!  Practice what?  What am I looking for?  What is a mistake that a Spit16 driver might make that I can take advantage of in my Ki84 for example?  I hope that you can tell me to do more then "wait for him to screw up"...  That advice is worthless if I haven't learned what those screw ups are yet.  Give me one...  Co-alt in a Ki84 vs a Spit16, what is something that he might do that would make you think, "He screwed the pooch.  Now I'm going to..."  That knowledge is something that a student of air combat can build on better then the usual vague answers we see here...

Most of you who offer instruction here are TOO aware of the possible variations, and not aware enough that beginners need a starting point more then they need an "anything could happen so you better be ready" point

I admit that the Training Forum is more frustrating then helpful a lot of the time.  This thread, has had a few knowledge nuggets in it, and a whole lot of ego crap.

When are you more gifted pilots going to accept that a lesser pilot would benefit more from more specific examples of "If this...  then..."?  Somethimg that can be easily appilied and the built upon?!  We all know that there are such situations.  For instance, when I spend time with 2 weekers, I will tell them that, "If he flat turns, you are usually better off doing a vertical turn."  Sure it's pretty darn simple stuff, but it is something that a cartoon pilot eating cheetos at his desk while wearing navy blue sweat pants can understand and even use to his own advantage in the main arena.

Give the cheetos crowd something we can use, for god's sake!

((For the record, I don't even own any navy blue sweat pants...  Just saying.))


/rant against the useless BBS experten, not you specifically FLS.  Your post just set me off a bit.