KI-84 ? Is it Dissed?

[nrshida]

Here's the logical flaw -- they (the unit) saw action. There is no doubt of this. WHICH PLANE they flew into combat is in doubt. Just a couple odd craft possibly attached to a unit doesn't mean they used them often if at all. On top of that, many Western authors have errors and mistakes about various marks and subvariants. Even Francillon has fabricated false variants (that never existed) on some planes before!

The evidence so far supports it was not used in combat much if at all. Many of the end-of-war "uber" planes (not that I consider this one uber, but you get my point) were stored away and stockpiled for homeland invasion plans and the final defense of Japan itself. They were not committed nor were units trained and readied on them. There are some planes where THOUSANDS were made, and yet saw no combat. They were destroyed after the surrender, never having been used.

Unfortunately Krusty, your woefully inadequate command of logic is demonstrated by your activity in this thread. You do not have evidence to support your claim, only a lack of evidence of the counter claim.

Completely unfounded speculation, as usual.



If and when HTC decide that the Aces High Ki-84 needs updating, it is quite likely that it will get the same treatment as the P-40 did, several new versions introduced at the same time. This is even easier to do with the Ki-84 since the physical alterations are limited to gun ports and instrument panels. The rest is different weights and power outputs.

Also remember that unlike the Niki the cowl-mounted Ho-5 20-mm would be synchronised.

[WING47]

With about 10,000 LWA K/Ds its in the mid average usage category of fighter. Heck the Zero has about the same, the K4 more, Spits far more, the Niki twice as much. The run-90, 51D, LA7? forgetaboutit. Isnt the KI-84 a truly elite fighter and shouldnt it be expected to be used more then it is?

The problem with the Ki-84 is that FW-190, P-51, LA7 etc etc outrun it. Dweebs like to run, and Aces High is a game full of so called "dweebs". So the Ki-84 is not used to the extent that a TnBer would expect.

[Ruah]

If the Spit 16 isn't perked, then the Otsu never will. Definitely 5 ENY though, maybe 8.

that is your argument really?  That the spit 16 is not perked?  Imagine a 4 cannon spit - not a typhy or tempest as they have drawbacks - but a full blown 4 cannon spitfire that is actually better then the spit 16 (the Otsu is a tad better in performance). . .

The Dora, 51 and LA are also 'elite fighter planes', its just that fighter planes are designed to be fast, and the fastest planes (in the real world) have 'initiative'.  Initiative is something you really want in controlling a fight, and the KI just does not have it.  It does if the opponent makes the mistake of going co-E/low alt with you - but that is the same for a brewster or a zero.  Initiative is king - that is why you climb to get it (banking E), extend to preserve it, and generally stay fast.  The KI is a great plane, but sometimes you need a plane that has initiative or you will get swarmed and die - it may take 4 guys to get you, but you will die. 
The sad thing is that many pilots mistake initiative for get out of jail free card.  Does not matter in the end, there will always be the fastest plane. . .

[Butcher]

The problem with the Ki-84 is that FW-190, P-51, LA7 etc etc outrun it. Dweebs like to run, and Aces High is a game full of so called "dweebs". So the Ki-84 is not used to the extent that a TnBer would expect.

To fly the Ki-84 you have to actually pose decent SA and ACM, when every other plane faster simply runs away without much of a fight - people realize the Ki-84 simply isn't a late war monster as the P51/Dora is in terms of speed.
Secondly they can't run from combat either, which with poor SA it won't matter how good your ACM is you will get caught and killed, its decent in the mistakes department - you can make a few and not get killed, but no where on terms of training wheels like a spitfire.

[titanic3]

that is your argument really?  That the spit 16 is not perked?  Imagine a 4 cannon spit - not a typhy or tempest as they have drawbacks - but a full blown 4 cannon spitfire that is actually better then the spit 16 (the Otsu is a tad better in performance). . .

The Dora, 51 and LA are also 'elite fighter planes', its just that fighter planes are designed to be fast, and the fastest planes (in the real world) have 'initiative'.  Initiative is something you really want in controlling a fight, and the KI just does not have it.  It does if the opponent makes the mistake of going co-E/low alt with you - but that is the same for a brewster or a zero.  Initiative is king - that is why you climb to get it (banking E), extend to preserve it, and generally stay fast.  The KI is a great plane, but sometimes you need a plane that has initiative or you will get swarmed and die - it may take 4 guys to get you, but you will die. 
The sad thing is that many pilots mistake initiative for get out of jail free card.  Does not matter in the end, there will always be the fastest plane. . .

Even if it is perked, just look at the F4U-4, best prop plane hands down yet it's only 20 perks. The Otsu, if perked, will only have maybe 5 perks. Noobs already flock to the Spit 16, if the Otsu comes out, noobs will flock it too.

Not a whole lot of good pilots fly the Spit 16 because in competent hands, it dominates practically everything. It's no challenge, and it'll be the same in a Otsu after a month or two when people realize how easy it is to dominate other planes.

[HighTone]

Even "when" the Ki-84 Ostu comes out and even if its not perked, I still can not see it being a plane for the masses. First its Japanese and it seems some folks just have a problem with that. Second its limited top speed, dive speed and high speed handling will keep most noobs from taking it for more than a few sorties here and there. First time they try and dive on a Pony and snap some parts off they will start swearing what a POS these Japanese planes are.


I don't however see a problem with an Eny 5 or 8 for it though. I don't see it being perked or not as being an issue....lets get the plane first and then figure out where it belongs on the MA scale. 

[Karnak]

There is no assurance that parts would come off of it as they do on the Ko.  The Mosquito Mk VI and Mosquito Mk XVI used the same wings and tail, yet in AH the Mk VI sheds parts and the Mk XVI does not.

[Peyton]

Unfortunately Krusty, your woefully inadequate command of logic is demonstrated by your activity in this thread. You do not have evidence to support your claim, only a lack of evidence of the counter claim.

Completely unfounded speculation, as usual.



If and when HTC decide that the Aces High Ki-84 needs updating, it is quite likely that it will get the same treatment as the P-40 did, several new versions introduced at the same time. This is even easier to do with the Ki-84 since the physical alterations are limited to gun ports and instrument panels. The rest is different weights and power outputs.

Also remember that unlike the Niki the cowl-mounted Ho-5 20-mm would be synchronised.

+1...thanks for all the cool information. 

Some people just live in a negative world.

[nrshida]

There is no assurance that parts would come off of it as they do on the Ko.  The Mosquito Mk VI and Mosquito Mk XVI used the same wings and tail, yet in AH the Mk VI sheds parts and the Mk XVI does not.

In my research there's no foundation for parts coming of the Ko either.

[ink]

if they give the Ki the punching power of the Hurri2c.......the gangs will whine and cry that it needs to be perked....it already is one of the best in the hanger for actually fighting.....give it the snap shot potential of the Hurri...

 I am saving all the perks....for the day it is updated.....I will fly nothing else....

[-aper-]

Unfortunately Krusty, your woefully inadequate command of logic is demonstrated by your activity in this thread. You do not have evidence to support your claim, only a lack of evidence of the counter claim.

May be this book (19 mB pdf) http://content.wuala.com/contents/-aper-/AH/Nakajima_Ki-84%20Fighter.pdf?dl=1 could be interesting regarding production numbers etc. I can not translate it myself

[nrshida]

Thank you Aper, I didn't have a copy of that one 

[Slash27]

Thank you Aper, I didn't have a copy of that one 

I thought I had a copy of that and another for the Ki-44, but they had both English and Japanese text. They are in storage after my last move. I'll go check, I need an excuse to get out of the house anyway.

[Ruah]

oh this is good

something interesting about that picture there - the double rows of planes (top left pic), the right row of planes are KI84s, the left row are KI115 (tsurugi or swords) which were a simplified version of the 84 designed specifically for tokkotai (kamikaze).

The caption under that left pic talks about the power of mass-production, that 3500 KI84s were produced - the third most mass produced by Japan during the war. . .

[nrshida]

There's some fantastic photographs in Aper's book that I've never seen before. Page 36 is pertinent to the Otsu discussion.

Pictures of a disassembled engine too