fix the strat game

[bustr]

Tilt,

I don't have an answer.

A 3 sided conflict like ours has a primary rule. The ability to wage equal all out war at any time.

By definition strategic bombers are force multiplyers to specificly destroy the source of resources and the delivery sytems to cripple a country's ability to wage war. Thus how Hitech raised the bar so high for bombers to first destroy the strat, then the HQ to achive a 6 hour delay in a country wide regeneration time. Essentialy the same amount of time and effort to organising and directing a large player group to reset the map. In both cases you have an equal ability to defeat the effort.

 Hap's take on it is a very mature approch working within the construct.

Most other strategies walk the abusable line of violating the primary rule of the 3 sided conflict in our game. They do this becasue, how else ultimatly can you reward strategic bombing except by letting them perform master stroke strategies forcing a country to it's knees while it's back is turned? Why else commit the hours to the process just for a few lousy points?

What better during off peak hours to bring a country to it's knees, nener nener them on 200 as you go to bed knowing you just screwed their pooch for hours to come. Thats the general gist of what most strategic bomber supporters really want. One button press and I personal screw you all, Yay bombers.

No I don't have an answer. I feel for bomber pilots but, they should let HTC deal with this after asking for a change. Not try to architect a change and not even know how the program works to protect all paying customers from being denyed their mutual fun. Everyone designs a change to make themselves happy, not the whole community.

[Dover]

i agree that one person shouldn't be able to take a country to its knees by itself

but then again 1 262 enters a area how long can he fly around booming and zooming cause no one can keep up with him

bombers don't have that ability even in their highest perked plane we are still highly vulnerable to almost any aircraft with a half way decent pilot

what im asking and others is that if we put our necks and do these long missions with say 5 to 10 guys it would be a huge pay off like bringing a country to its knees if we are going to invest 3 to 5 hours flying in to do this mission is should atleast take that long for them to undo what we did

if a bomber set hits a factory in ww2 is it up before the bombers can even land

i know we can't do exactly like they did it would ruin the game but when i take out the hq and it is back up before i am even 2 sectors away that is completely BS

and you know what i like the idea the one guy posted 3 comments back how about this

the city doesn't change but we get a ton of perkies from it so taht there are more perk bombers flying i know i would fly 29's alot more if i could afford them more often

and then we change the hq i like what the one guy said about instead of a building make it a area and make it so it can't be resupplied if its a area not one guy can take it down then so it takes a mission to down it but it a exponential curve that puts a delay or maybe even just makes the radar untrustworthy have it cast shadows or not pick up groups of people or just less accurate some how till when the whole place is down its flat out off
but it can't be resupplied its a set time limit i would say of atleast 4 hours since thats how long its going to take the bombers to get out and land this at-least helps them hide their egress as well

so back to what i started with if 1 guy in a 262 can change the air battle at a base then 5 bomber pilots should be able to change the battle for a country

[bustr]

Air battels are fought in localised areas. 262's are over hyped problems for how many are in the air at any time. We shoot them down all the time.

Strategic bombing is designed to effect the source of resources and distribution channels of resources thus crippling a country's ability to wage war. Game rule #1: the ability to wage equal war at all times.

In time you will not be happy with getting huge perks just for a round trip to the Factories or HQ. Eventualy you will inch your camel's nose farther under the tent and demand your time and effort accomplish something with a lasting effect becasue what else were bombers designed for. And thus the cautionairy tale of free perk rides for 60 minutes.

Equal ability to wage war at all times means all capturable objects are the Strategic Objectives independent of other capturable objects. Any idea you come up with you need to figure out how to game it to your advantage. If you can it's a bad idea for this game.

[The Fugitive]

and if one guys ups a 262 and chases down and kills the other 262 it stops one guy from bring them to there knees. Buffs making the long trip WITHOUT fighter escort are just asking to be shot down. Do you bring escorts? Do you fly a tight formation to protect the other buffs? You seem to want a lot of points/perks without any risks. Maybe just learn to shot and plan better will get you want you want.

[4Prop]

my question is still if you think its so pointless then why do you do it. and better yet, knowing its small effect, why do you bomb the HQ/strats and then come and whine?

definition of insanity:doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome

[bustr]

From a long term perspective.

I beleive HTC will evolve the game steadily but, slowly.

I beleive HTC will not kill their livelyhood just to make a new generation of players happy because they can complain loudy in these forums.

Is it time for a change? Some change is probably coming as part of the normal evolution cycle.

This evolution of the game is one of the best I've seen. And what does HTC get as their reward? Whining about can you chage it now, can you change it now, can you change it now..........

[Dover]

Strategic bombing is designed to effect the source of resources and distribution channels of resources thus crippling a country's ability to wage war. Game rule #1: the ability to wage equal war at all times.

how does making the radar down for a longer period of time even 45 min like when you knock out the actaul tower or giving perkies worth the trip make the other side not able to wage war

i'm not asking for them not to be able to up planes
i'm not asking for all their ord to be down
i'm asking for the strats to be effective and when you take them out not be so easy to negate why should i have to put so much effort into bombing them and you only have to put 1 tenth the effort into getting back up
i'm asking for fair is fair here
if we kill the strats for lets say ords, ok so we down ords at a base
well you got the next base back we aren't ending your ability to fight we are making it harder for you to fight
i would never ask for me to be able to shut down a whole country with one mission but that if i put together a organized mission with escorts and everything else its worth doing
this is no differant than killing the starts at a base it just makes it so the strats at the base won't automatically pop or will atleast take longer too

be sides the people you are talking about the ones who just want to have fun and fight they don't care about ords or radar or darbar or troops or ack or any of that it wouldn't affect thier fight at all

the hangers will still pop in 15 min the same planes will still all be available this will simply let those who play the strat base cap style able to add another dimension to it

and if you look back at histroy this is how it was and theres no reason it should have been changed and i don't see one person going wow im happy they changed that back in 2008 or whatever it was 

[bustr]

You are asking for a country wide blanket denyal of a equal ability war resource for nearly an hour.

That is a 2 sided war death match strategy to allow unrestricted enemy movement in a country's space as a punishment for allowing you to bomb a targetable bottelneck in the game flow. You are asking as a reward for your effort unrestricted enemy movement from 2 fronts inside of a third country for nearly an hour. As is HQ can be resupplied and the lights turned back on very quickly to regain the war resource.

You are violating rule #1 because you want HTC to introduce process flow knock out blows how ever small as a strategic option and self reward mechanism. Same reason the atomic bomb is not available with the B29.

Equal ability to wage war at all times.

You really dislike that key rule to making a 3 sided conflict process work equaly for all the paying customers. You are attached to the idea of knock out blows in war games as a reward for your efforts and the opening move for crushing a country. Your design fails because you are not thinking about the whole community's equal fun across 3 countries. Just how to introduce knock out blows to bottelnecks how ever small to the process flow in a benign harmless looking package.

[Easyscor]

Game rule #1: the ability to wage equal war at all times.

I disagree with your rule #1.
I would modify it to read Game rule #1: The ability to wage war at all times.

After the first move, there is no such thing as an equal fight in any game. The key is to keep from crippling a side while maintaining depth to game-play.

Perhaps you could explain to the community what in your opinion the strat does and why it's in the game, it's intended purpose? If you can do that, then you can probably suggest improvements.

[TheAssi]

Expect a bunch of hot air.

[Dover]

Equal ability to wage war at all times.

so you can't deny the fact the ENY needs fixing to then by your own words you are making the ENY system invalid
it limits my ability to a equal fight all the time

so kill eny or give me my worth while strat runs  your choice

[BaldEagl]

All I'll say is I no longer fly bombers or attack aircraft because the only targets I have are airfields and GV bases which I now use to fly airplanes and drive GV's and I wouldn't want my own fun spoiled.  That took away half the game for me so asking for a change in the strat game isn't so far-fetched.

I'd just like to see a return to the zone system and strats spread across the map.

[Tilt]

I too would make rule # 1 read something like "all players should have (equal) access to combat"

I do not see any requirement that the war should be balanced beyond that the game model should not have a predetermined bias to any chess piece.

Edit

Btw "equal ability to wage war" and "ability to equally wage war" are not the same

[guncrasher]

Semp, ouch!  I'll take a stab at this one.  My assumption is a sortie at high alt involving 5 to 15 guys in bombers is good for the game.  Y'all can figure out why.  

Ok, mega buff points for strat runs.  I'm for it.  Let's say, I take off on a 90 min to 2 hour run with some other grey beards.  Let's say we destroy the Ack Factory to 10%.  We land.  For our efforts, we get that magic # 300 buff perks.  Those perks will get turned into B29's.

I'd say during these last months of playing, I've spent a good deal of time in buffs.  After work, it's enjoyable.  So, then it's hangars, ord & barracks, and town at the field levels.  And teaching newer players how to go about this buffing thing most efficiently.  

If the rewards of strat destroying were large in terms of bomber perks, old, old, old, guys like me (I'm guessing) would flock it more.  Then as I said, that would toss more 29's into the air.  Which I say is a good thing.  

As it is now, when I contemplate a 29 sortie/mission, I'm looking at how much I can lose if it all goes south, and how much other guys will lose if they join the mission.  Last night is a good example.  Formation cost about 180.  Great.  Put it out on Country Channel, and the upshot was folks wanted to fly but either didn't have the perks or weren't too keen of putting the perks on the line.  So, we upped B17's instead.  Had a fine run.  Were about 5+ of us attempting to hit a couple fields on the Rook front.  It was a 22.5K run and tons of action.  A few guys did quite well.  I landed successfully after getting mauled mightily.

Now put perks into the pockets of buff pilots and those same guys and more will up 29's, and we'll go toddling in at 27.5K to 30K and have to wrestle with M Jugs and 152's.  A good thing says I.  

Also, 1 buff with 75% gas nailing tons of fields and strats is something I do from time to time.  One can get away with it with a high likelihood of success due to the small dar footprint.  So you can add my name to the growing list of "two" who do it for fun.

Mega perks for buffs accomplishes several things simultaneously that are beneficial for the game.

1) It won't adversely affect the gv "whack a mole" spawn battles.
2) It won't hamper the 5K ho'ing hot rod fur balls.
3) It won't put the kibosh on bust the hangars, bust the town, drive in an M3 captures.
4) It will add another dimension in terms of frequency of B29 runs at nose bleed altitudes.  And, maybe, amongst the geriatric set, bring down the 29's to the 20K envelope.  

Now, I'm thinking . . . nope.  I don't like the idea of cutting the cost of the 29's in half.  That will put more in the air, but do nothing to put more buffs over strats.  If anyone is asking what's the big deal about the strats, for me, I figure its a function of playing Aces High since 2002.  In the beginning, 5K fur was exhilarating.  For a long time, porking field elements was my thing.  Got a thrill out of it.  Whack-a-mole still might be fun, but I'm lousy and slow at it.  And the kids' eyes are better than mine.  And kill all the hangars, for me, is just so inelegant and lame.  I'm more of a nail the ack, vh, cap/vulch and get the town down and capture.

My guess is for vets who have been at this for better than a decade who also find buffing fun, the strat thing would be more a part of their play if the rewards were BIG.  I think the last 29 run I put up was maybe 2 months ago.  A big one that is.  And it was quite small by some of the 15+ 29 runs I've tried to chase down since their introduction.  

Yup.  I'm for mega-strat points.  I'm not asking anyone to play my way.  Not depriving any of the fun they find the in game the way they like to play it.  And not criticizing others' motives for playing this way or that.  

Anyway, I doubt it'll ever happen.  Oh well, the B17 is a great ride anyway.

i think it's all bs.  all the vets who asked for the b29 so they could spend the 1k's of bomber points they had, they hardly ever fly one.  I have plenty of times hit the strats but the way the current scoring system works, it wont help you much to up your score if you know how it works.  you may get mega points but lose  score in a couple of others.


if you really understood how the scoring system works then you would understand that hitting strats wont get you anywhere close to being ranked #1.  it will actually count against you.  bomber scoring is not really any different than fighter scoring.  you must do short runs and get lots of kills quickly with the difference than in bombers you cant rearm easily and go back for another 1 or 2 hour run, like in fighters because it goes against you.


semp

[BaldEagl]

i think it's all bs.  all the vets who asked for the b29 so they could spend the 1k's of bomber points they had, they hardly ever fly one.  I have plenty of times hit the strats but the way the current scoring system works, it wont help you much to up your score if you know how it works.  you may get mega points but lose  score in a couple of others.


if you really understood how the scoring system works then you would understand that hitting strats wont get you anywhere close to being ranked #1.  it will actually count against you.  bomber scoring is not really any different than fighter scoring.  you must do short runs and get lots of kills quickly with the difference than in bombers you cant rearm easily and go back for another 1 or 2 hour run, like in fighters because it goes against you.


semp

Damage per time isn't part of the bomber scoring system and neither are kills so clearly you do not understand the scoring system.

Damage points (objects destoyed), damage hit % (objects destroyed per bomb) damage per sortie and damage per death are the big drivers of bomber score.  In the past with the spread strats bombing cities with heavy bombs was the most effective way to achieve bomber rank which also affected game strategy.  Now it's dropping one bomb into the middle of several towns which accomplishes nothing but rank achievement.