I must think diferently than all of you

[R4M]

 

Originally posted by Wardog:
if 300 of us have no problems with ack and plane, i wonder why 4 or 5 of you do? Deflate your ego and fly the damn plane.

I have my opinion. You have yours. I give my opinion. You gave yours.

While I agree that most of the times I have not put the things in the way they should be put (sometimes because language barrier ,most times not), it is also true that many people simply can't stand a different opinion.

You think that 5' AA in the fleet is OK when it predicts a change of course of 90º with 45 seconds of antelation (this is what the CV flaks do now). You think that the B17 ball turret should fire to the high 12 o clock (as it does now). You think that the 35K laser bomb accuracy is OK as it is. You say that the Hispanos are correctly modelled, that the oswtinds top armor (lack thereof) is perfectly modelled, that the N1K2's FM is perfectly adjusted.

Fine. I respect your view. But now dont roadkill my free right to give my opinion. If you think that I'm a whiner because I think all that is wrong and I say it in the forums -some times in a passionate way, others not-, go and re-read your post and think what are you.

[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-06-2001).]

[Jochen]

 

Sorry but while most of you here, guys, are real nice people, there is a quite vast percentage who are simply lame m*********rs who have fun with passionate people who can't avoid to bite their baits. And when they do it, then they come with the flametrhower to toast them.

So... Which one is the stupid one, one who sets the bait or one that bites it time after time knowing it is a bait?

Note about general situation here... Being a good pilot is no reason not to ban anyone. If they cannot behave like adults and respect others, then they only get what they ask for. They get no sympathy at all from me.

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jochen When I am king you will be first against the wall

Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

[Nash]

Ram.... dude...

I come here to fly... not get baited. You blame the guys who chomp down on that bait?

No way man..

shrecking quit the baiting. It aint what we signed up for. I don't need to listen to guys inciting a fight on a radio channel that they couldn't win in the air. I don't need guys causing humiliation *after* they've beat them in the air.

Ram, you gotta know the difference.

Placing the blame on the people who feel compelled to respond likewise to these dicks is blame misplaced.

It is, after all, what these "baiters" are looking for. Screw that noise. Quit the baiting, shut the diddly up and fly.

This is a flight sim.

You drama queens need to go back outside to yer treehouses where this kinda stuff makes more sense.

[R4M]

I dont deny nor rest a single part of responsability I -or any of the vocal people in aces high- may have on flamewars, or anything of that kind. I accept that many times I've behaved like a jerk, both online and on the forums. Many others times not, but for the times I've done it intentionally, I assume full responsability, and that others may have baited me doesnt steal me a single piece of that responsability.

I simply say there is much more responsability for the flamewars than the one wich must be assumed by the vocal guys, and quite widely extended in this community, than what most of you want to accept.

BTW I am talking mostly of the Forum flamewars now, not the attitude online. I think that what it can be said here shouldnt be online because here we are to discuss things while online we are to fly and fight.

[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-06-2001).]

[MANDOBLE]

RAM, I think, sincerely, that should have been easy to understand. The child breaking stones but paying for the house deserves a different response than the child that simply breaks windows for nothing.
All I'm asking for is a bit more discrection to ban customers, and a bit more serious process to do it. I didn't read what Nath was throwing at ch.1. But I read the HT response as something like: Nath, you've learn nothing, and Nath, see ya. And then a serie of player messages about the expulsion. Perhaps some emails warning about a non desirable conduct previous to the expulsion, perhaps an extense private conversation previous to click the red button...

[fd ski]

i read AGW and WWIIOL boards and there seems to be a consensus that AH community is mean, hostile and rude in general.

Maybe with removal of those who get a kick out of pissing people off, maybe now we will lose that reputation.

I've flown with Nath before, and have soft spot for a guy, he makes me laugh, but i've seen him cross the line before and not relent. We all did. Let's ask ourselves how many new players on 2 weeks trial didn't continue with AH because they found channel 1 to be overwhelimgly mean and rude ?



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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[Apache]

Nash, count me as one in your corner. Not much else to say, you pretty much said it all, so I won't bore everyone by repeating it.
<S>

[Nash]

 

BTW I am talking mostly of the Forum flamewars now, not the attitude online. I think that what it can be said here shouldn't be online because here we are to discuss things while online we are to fly and fight.

I guess.....

But erhm... that's not to say that this kinda BS doesn't reflect horribly on HTC by any prospective flyer takin' a gander at our BBS here... Baiters bait and biters bite. I don't think it's particularly cool for the baiters to bait, and I don't think it's quite so savvy of the biters to bite...but so be it. It's here, on the BBS...

But yer now making a distinction... The BBS vs Online. Where it matters.

Tell me RAM... Do you think it's ok for guys like towd to trash talk every single person he finds himself dyin' to?

Those new guys.... the guys who say "Oh my god! I got my first AH kill!" A perty neat experience... we've all been there. Now what if his 1st kill was towd. Man, the rotten misfortune that would be. You would be called a warpin' hackin' dweeb flyin' cheat.

Welcome to Aces High.

And a new guy... totally green... Gets gunned down by Nath. "You squeak you were owned, you handsomehunk"

Welcome to Aces High.

pfft..

Anyone who would defend this type of toejam (like "oooh noo.... he gave me 6 calls alla time he was a good guy, trust me")... is... uhm...blind.

Spare me alla the rest of it cuz it don't matter.

Those guys were *bad* for our sim. They were *embarrassing* us as Aces High flyers. Their behavior was intolerable, their conduct indefensible, and the outcome almost so blatently a natural result as to probably cause a certain degree of astonishment by them, themselves, that this didn't happen sooner than it did.

[storm]

howdy all

 where should the limits be,zigrat?
i agree totally that this environment should be a free expression area,but should there be no rules at all?

we live in a supposed " free society "and still obey to zillions of rules imposed on us through legacy or tradition.We call it democracy.

In law we have strict guidelines and rules.
We actually form these law's through our own
behaviour.

This BBS looks to me more like the Far West.

We got the gunslingers,the lawmakers,the hores,the nice innocent farmers etc

But there must be a limit to what can be said and done IMHO.Or should this be a test area for total anarchy?

 If your best friend kills a innocent pedestrian with his car while he is drunk ,should
he just walk cuz he's a real nice guy and
goes to church every Sunday?


Sorry my english is pretty toejamty i havent gotten involded in any other discussions because i fear of getting misunderstood and
seeing so well written posts isnt too encouraging.Feels like a 5 year old throwing in comments at a scientist convention

 I really like AH a lot,it has it's faults but way more positive aspects than negative.
And the game has had a incredible evolution since the first release.Nothing is perfect and it will never be,but there are ways to critisize stuff and there are ways how to behave.

 <S>

[Lephturn]

Mand, it doesn't work that way.

HTC has to ensure their game world remains a marketable product.  If there are folks who are doing things that may prevent it from being as marketable, they MUST remove them.  Just because we pay for the product doesn't give any one of us the right to damage that product and hurt what the rest of us are getting for our money.  This is HTC's business, and if they feel anyone is doing things which will hurt that business, it is their right to remove them.  Just because you pay for the product doesn't give you the right to injure it.  If you pay admission to Disney World, and then run around in the park yelling about how the rides suck and the developers modelled space mountain all wrong, you think you would be in the park very long?  Security would haul your butt out into the parking lot in seconds.  Why should it be any different in a game world?  It shouldn't, it isn't.

What these folks were like as pilots or even as people is completely irrelevant.  They were doing things that HTC felt was bad for their business and hurtful to their product.  They were warned to stop repeatedly, and they did not.  If they got toejamcanned, it's thier own damn fault and nobody elses.  HTC needs to maintain the viability of thier product, and if you do something that threatens that, you will be removed.  A shame that it took an online game to show these guys that you are ultimately responsible for your own actions, and there are consequences to what you say and do.

I'm glad to see that HTC is actively involved with their product, and taking whatever steps are necessary to keep it viable.  No matter how much crap they may take for doing what needs to be done.  I would be far more concerned about Aces High if HTC was not involved or didn't take the steps necessary to keep it on track.  Lucky for us, we have the most involved and responsive developers I've ever heard of.

<S> HTC  

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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 04-06-2001).]

[figaro]

St Santa, I think we have a freudian slip here...

You said:

"I get the distinct feeling of schadefrau - being happy about the mishaps of others."

The correct word, unexistant in other languages, is "Schadenfreude", litterally "Damage pleasure"

"Schadefrau", on the other hand, litterally means "damaged woman", hehe...

Cheers

figaro

[Westy]

 This topic sure brought out into the light the some of warts and over all ugliness some folks have inside them.  I've lost some respect, or in one or two cases what little remained,  for a handlful of folks who actually think what HT or Pyro have did was not in thier, and this communites, best interest.

  At the same time the discussion here has reinforced my respect for some and I figuring that the quailty of the community is now on the upswing.

 Now if Ram would just leave. And take Paintmaw with him.
 
  -Westy
 

[MANDOBLE]

 

Originally posted by Lephturn:
If there are folks who are doing things that may prevent it from being as marketable, they MUST remove them

Agree with you Leph, but I was talking about the way to remove them. As you know, there are ways and ways. Perhaps it is my fault cause being used to a very different kind of relations between providers and custormers.


[This message has been edited by MANDOBLE (edited 04-06-2001).]

[leonid]

Personally, I got along with both towd & Nath.  However, their behavior has been difficult to deal with at times.  That both were eventually banned is not very surprising.

Remember, businesses generally reserve the right to refuse service to any customer.  That HTC exercised this right on the two players in question was understandable.

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leonid, Kompol
5 GvIAP VVS-KA, Knights

"Our cause is just.  The enemy will be crushed.  Victory will be ours."

[Mighty1]

Man!! I can't believe I'm saying this but...I agree with Nash.