I must think diferently than all of you

[Staga]

Bye Westy !

[Kieran]

Jigster-

I hope you don't think most people who are trying to remain objective and discuss this openly are doing endzone jigs over banned players. I know that certainly is not my intent, and I feel that people other than me have tried to delicately discuss this matter in a constructive way.

Like it or not this is big news and people are going to talk about it. So, how do we do that? I don't think personal attacks are the way to go anytime, certainly more so when the person attacked cannot defend themselves. The problem here is how does one relate a sense of having actually knowing the characters involved without at least a cursory mentioning of them and whether or not one had any trouble? I don't think the details of the altercations are relevant in any way and should be left out. I personally have chosen to merely say "I had my experiences with them". Hopefully that conveys the possibility that I was at least partially at fault.

Another thing that is important to try to observe in this discussion is keeping the debate focused on the behavioral aspect of the problem, not the character of the people involved. What I think of anyone else is not important; how I act to them is. Everyone isn't going to like everyone, but everyone has to behave within socially acceptable boundaries. That is the issue here, nothing else.

So, it comes to this- we have a mess of new people that are wondering what the hell happened in the last 24 hours. They don't know these guys at all, have no experiences that allow them to understand HTC's actions, and therefore conclude this was some capricious act of powermongering. Even the most ardent supporters of the two expelled must realize this is not what happened. This is not a "one false move and you're dead" environment, nor should those that know better try to portray this as some kind of unfair action on behalf of HTC.

This stuff is going to be discussed. It is ugly, painful, and sadly necessary to get through it. There are opinions here that will never change, but there are many more that will. It is important that these new people gain enough relevant information, meaning "pertaining to behavior not character", to develop a balanced view of what happened.

[Hajo]

Hate to see anyone banned.  but the facts of life are simple.  We all live by rules every day of our life.  something we've all become accustomed to.

We follow driving laws, tax laws, work rules etc.  dam.......there are rules all over the place <G>

some rules I naturally don't agree with, we are individuals and we all have different outlooks on life.  But one thing is clear, if you violate rules you've agreed to obey you pay the consequences.

There is a word called "tact" in the english dictionary.  Disagreements can be settled without becoming boisterous and argumentative.  NO......I'm not a wuss, but I do know when to keep my mouth shut, and sometimes that's dam hard to do when you have a big mouth like mine <G>

One thing I've also noticed, those with the biggest mouths sometimes only open it long enough to change feet <G>  I do hope however that all involved will be able to return and fly the skies of Aces High again.  another thing I've learned, we all make mistakes, hopefully we learn from them.

Hajo

[Superfly]

Just for the record:
I had muted Nath earlier that night because he was complaining so much that it was ruining my fun and everyone else's in the arena.  After that, he feels compelled to go off on Natedog and complain some more.  You'd think a person would get the idea after they've been muted.  Obviously, he did not.  Because later on in the night he goes off on HT.  So, 3 times in one night he provokes us even after being warned.
  If he would have talked to one of us on private channel, it would have been a completely different story.  It's one thing to voice your opinion.  It's another to harass people while they are trying to enjoy themselves.  You get what you deserve.  We aren't on a witch hunt here. You have to really, really press our buttons to get banned, and he was asking for it.

------------------
"Holy Underwear!"
John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE=- SQUAD

[AKSeaWulfe]

Does anyone else feel like they're in High School again?

Quick everyone get into their cliques and run around like monkeys making dumb bellybutton noises pissing each other off!!! Yeah.... that's the ticket.
-SW

[Lance]

:::shrugs::: Worse than hating seeing people get banned, I hate seeing people doing things to get banned.  Sorry to see customers go, but they left HTC little choice.

EDIT:  Based on the MA scenario posted which I have yet to see anyone dispute.

[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 04-06-2001).]

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by SUPERFLY:
<snip>It's one thing to voice your opinion.  It's another to harass people while they are trying to enjoy themselves.  

Does the .squelch command mysteriously not work for HTC employees?  Those of us without banning or muting powers have dealt with such harrassing behavior in the past by simply tuning it out.

I wasn't there, but I get the impression that ignoring would have worked just as well as muting/perma-banning.

-- Todd/DMF

[Yeager]

todd,

Having squelch is a good thing as long as I never need to use it.  Having to use it once in a blue moon is acceptable but having to use it every single time I log on sucks.

Asking HTC why they just dont squelch instead of banning problem people is rediculous.

If HT and crew would have hammered down on these guys three revisions ago we wouldnt be having this discussion today.

However, better late then never, much better.

Yeager

[paintmaw]

MA is for flying
BBS is for some to launch personal attacks
Singeling out people and attacking them , saying THEY are wrong You are right ,  Sounds like 2 people who were banned .
I never had any respect for those who have attacked me so no lose here . what a bunch of BS

[NATEDOG]

Todd, ignore something long enough, and it will go away, right? WRONG! And even if I did .squelch him, then Superfly .squelched him, then even HT .squelched him, he would still be talking smack on the radio ruining everyone's good time.
just for the record, Nath's last words to me were, " hey Nate, why don't you go make us an MA terrain that doesn't suck. " Let me tell you how much that brightened up my day. I logged off, the fun was gone. Man, I work hard on a game that I love to play. I want to enjoy it like everyone else. I try to help people out, take suggestions, and welcome constuctive comments, but I draw the line at insults.

------------------
Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-

".... And on the eighth day, God created beer. "

[Toad]

Let us all pause to remember that HTC, while a company, are also individuals and fellow players.

While we're extremely lucky to even have such a relationship in the game, we should appreciate all the more that no one is more sensitive to continual negative criticism than the creators of an object.

Simple civility. Can we manage that?

[Superfly]

Monitoring the arena is one of our jobs.  If we were to squelch ch. 1, it would be irresponsible to our community.  It wouldn't be long before it turned into a game where people openly used foul language, insults, etc. without fear of consequences.  If you want that kind of atmosphere, then AH is not for you.  Obviously, we can't catch everyone, but we do our best to regulate within reason.  If someone yells over the channel "F**K!" once out of frustration, where not going to hang them.  I admit I've done it once or twice.  Nobody's perfect.  However, there is a definite line between abuse/harassment and exhaulting in frustration.

------------------
"Holy Underwear!"
John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE=- SQUAD

[This message has been edited by SUPERFLY (edited 04-06-2001).]

[mrfish]

harranguing newbies is no good. making fun of people for asking how to join as a gunner, etc. hurts their enjoyment of the game. it is tough enough making that first open channel comment and hoping for no rejection. it is a good feeling to be accepted and you should think of your own first online moments and picture them with stinging rejection if you disagree.

when i was new the community was very forgiving. they were harassing but in a good natured way and not nasty at all. i laughed off the taunts because they were meant to teach and test character, not deconstruct.

imagine if your english wasnt so good and you were flying along having a good time and made the mistake of asking a question with the sentence not in perfect form. having to listen to the insuing bashing sucks, it is hurtful and a player with class wouldnt go there in the first place.

newbies are probably shell shocked enough just getting off the ground in this game and it is frustrating in the first few months getting shot down all the time. thats the price of realism. the ones with heart keep at it despite their frustration - THAT is the test, not listening to or accepting some kid or some bitter guy take out their aggressions on easy targets.

class players wouldnt do that. its still an open place and needs new blood. that type of harassment will turn this place into a stale ol boys club in no time.

i cant think of anything good to say about towd so i will skip him.

however i have several videos of engagements with nath and even after review, cant figure out exactly how he pulled some of those stunts. those were some awesome maneuvers no doubt and nath was a clearly superior adversary. i liked fighting him very much even if i lost almost all of the time. primarily because the fight usually taught me something either way.

this is a community though and there is a lot more to it than just being good. htc made a tough choice but a good one - that is the burden of leadership.

there's no happy ending, just an ending.

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by Yeager:
Having squelch is a good thing as long as I never need to use it.  Having to use it once in a blue moon is acceptable but having to use it every single time I log on sucks.

Asking HTC why they just dont squelch instead of banning problem people is rediculous.

This is why I'm in favor of a permanent squelch list, as suggested long ago by folks like Funked.  Add handles to your list and they're squelched every time you log into AH.  Out of sight, out of mind.

This was exactly the purpose of a squelch command to begin with... to remove the ability of individuals to harrass others.  Banning and muting also achieve the same end, but such a punishment seems severe.  Even then, why a permanent ban?

-- Todd/DMF

[AKSeaWulfe]

 

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Even then, why a permanent ban?

-- Todd/DMF

It's only permanent if the offending party decides not to pursue offering an apology to the party being offended.

Just to put a whole new spin on the subject.
-SW