gamey stuff and real life

[Reaper90]

I've had lots of problems with that, I ALWAYS let the guy go when I see he is deadtick (unless I see it to late) and it cost me a few lives because they would turn it on and shoot at my back

no good deed goes unpunished 

ALWAYS kill deadstick pilots.

Helps 'em get back to the tower faster that way, saving them valuable gaming time.

[hitech]

1: no it would take probably closer if not more then a minute to restart the engine

Utter balderdash.

I have had 3 engine outs in real life. One time it took about 1 sec to run the longest was maybe 1 - 3 secs after rolling back to right side up in the air plane.

The one that was do to lean mixture (how you would stop an engine for real) after spinner disintegration was instantaneous.

HiTech

[RedBull1]

I know a few very good pilots who do that, and I do not understand why... Cutting your engine basically should scream to the guy youre fighting "MY ENGINES DEAD ROPE ME!!!" where you can cut throttle to 0 and get the same results, only your opponent won't know that you did. (unless very very experienced)....  oh well.. Just my 2 cents 
 

[MK-84]

Utter balderdash.

I have had 3 engine outs in real life. One time it took about 1 sec to run the longest was maybe 1 - 3 secs after rolling back to right side up in the air plane.

The one that was do to lean mixture (how you would stop an engine for real) after spinner disintegration was instantaneous.

HiTech

What do you mean by spinner disintegration?

[ALFAMEGA51]

I know a few very good pilots who do that, and I do not understand why... Cutting your engine basically should scream to the guy youre fighting "MY ENGINES DEAD ROPE ME!!!" where you can cut throttle to 0 and get the same results, only your opponent won't know that you did. (unless very very experienced)....  oh well.. Just my 2 cents 
 

  Boooo 

[MK-84]

1: no it would take probably closer if not more then a minute to restart the engine
Why? or how do you know this?
2:only about 10% of the game is "realistic". 5% because airplanes fly. the other 5% being those airplanes existed in WWII
Thats subjective
3:there was never a P51 Vs Spit16, 109 vs 190....yada yada yada
Your point?
4:we dont have engine failures
Yes we do.  You mean mechanical failures, but that has little to do with this thread
5:we dont experience control surface lockups
Yes we do
6:we have an ammo counter
Yup, and for gameplay purposes it isnt awhole lot of fun to get into a fight with no or almost no ammo
7:our guns dont jam
Not much fun to have guns jam for no fault on the pilot. Refer to your #4 on engine failures.
8:if your plane catches fire, it automatically goes boom. unlike some planes in WWII that could catch fire and still make it back, we are done after 5 seconds of being on fire.
Very rarely if a plane caught fire it would be ok.  Not to mention the fire we have ingame would be endgame for a real pilot.  You're referencing something not modeled, and not accurate at all to how AH modeles a plane on fire.
9:the lack of objectives (strategic objectives)
We do have strategic objectives, the just do not affect the game as is very much.
10:ramming. In WWII only a few times did only a few pilots make it away (and especially with almost no damage like you see every day)
You do not understand how collisions work.  Theres a likely several hundred other threads that discuss this
11:our fuel burns at twice the actual rate
For gameplay purposes since no one wants to fly for hours to find a fight.  This balances a planes "attributes"
12:we always have a trusty radio
and who on earth wouldnt want that in a game?

None of that addresses anything related to shutting down an engine to attempt to gain a competitive advantage.

You're clearly listing "realism" VS "gameplay"  which has little to do with the discussion, but also doesnt show at all WHY a pilot in AH would use this as a tactic.

I believe the following for engine shutoff as a dogfighting maneuver. (in AH)
1.  The pilot believes that this is somehow going to give them a competitive advantage over just cutting the throttle.
2.  The pilot may not have a throttle control as part of their setup, and thus use essential an "off" and "On control.

[4Prop]

Utter balderdash.

I have had 3 engine outs in real life. One time it took about 1 sec to run the longest was maybe 1 - 3 secs after rolling back to right side up in the air plane.

The one that was do to lean mixture (how you would stop an engine for real) after spinner disintegration was instantaneous.

HiTech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmFJ08E0l1k

None of that addresses anything related to shutting down an engine to attempt to gain a competitive advantage.

You're clearly listing "realism" VS "gameplay"  which has little to do with the discussion, but also doesnt show at all WHY a pilot in AH would use this as a tactic.

.

yes that is what i was listing. I thought he was talking about the differences between real life and the game. so i listed stuff. my mistake for thinking something completly else

[4Prop]

None of that addresses anything related to shutting down an engine to attempt to gain a competitive advantage.

3:my point..gamey

4: really? cause my engine has never given out unless it was shot to hell, oil, or fuel leaked.

5: only in compressions

7: IRL, they did. just listing something that is gamey

8: bombers that caught fire never made it back..hmm? I've heard first hand accounts of planes that caught fire and they made it back. a P47 was jumped by a 190 ace and the 190 caught it on fire. the Jug spun out, while on fire. the pilot recovered and made it home..that is, after a fight. Never has a P47..much less any plane in AH EVER done that.

10: they obviously dont work as they did in RL. thats a given.

11: if we had a 1.00 FBR what makes you fly for 2 hours to find a fight? I never knew changing the FBR would also completly rearrange the maps.

12: true, yet another listing of gameyness

[Tupac]

11: if we had a 1.00 FBR what makes you fly for 2 hours to find a fight? I never knew changing the FBR would also completly rearrange the maps.

So you want spitfires and LA7s escorting bombers across the map?

4prop I guess you also want to fill out mountains of paperwork before you go fly, then wait on the ramp for 10 minutes for the oil to warm up. Then you can taxi to the runway and takeoff, and then throttle back to a lower power setting so as not to burn too much gas or destroy your engine. Then you can fly for several hours where you may or may not see another airplane.

Sounds like fun to me...not.


Now, my skyhawk is far from a WW2 airplane but here is a quick startup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deYzldrA0ss

Engine is started in 2 seconds, literally.

[Ack-Ack]

The concept works quite well, but usually only against inexperienced pilots who can't instantly tell what it means. As mentioned before he should be cutting throttle as to not give up the goose to his little plan.

What it *definetly* doesn't work against, is those really focused-for-a-kill types who have the right speed at all times to avoid such situations, bunch of nerds; lulz  

No, the concept doesn't work quite well at all.  There is no benefit to shutting down your engine in a fight, just like the thought of using elevator trim to make your plane turn tighter.  Both are AH urban legends that have been debunked many times through the years.  But by all means continue to do it if I'm in the area, I'd love the free and easy kill.

ack-ack

[4Prop]

So you want spitfires and LA7s escorting bombers across the map?
sure. i dont care. they suck above 15k any ways

4prop I guess you also want to fill out mountains of paperwork before you go fly, then wait on the ramp for 10 minutes for the oil to warm up. Then you can taxi to the runway and takeoff, and then throttle back to a lower power setting so as not to burn too much gas or destroy your engine. Then you can fly for several hours where you may or may not see another airplane.
not all of that. I was just wanting a little more "realism" shall I say

Sounds like fun to me...not.

[Tupac]

Well all of that stuff is realism.

[Reaper90]

Utter balderdash.

I have had 3 engine outs in real life. One time it took about 1 sec to run the longest was maybe 1 - 3 secs after rolling back to right side up in the air plane.

The one that was do to lean mixture (how you would stop an engine for real) after spinner disintegration was instantaneous.

HiTech

This was in a modern aircraft or a WWII bird?

[Karnak]

4prop,

The problem with limiting radio function or quality in the game is that it only affects players without squads.  Those with squads would just bypass the whole thing and use something like Ventrilo.

You may object to it on realism grounds all you like, but there is nothing HTC can do about modern communications.



(You also may want to review your opinion of Spitfires above 15k.  The Mk VIII and the Mk XVI do fine above 15k and the Mk IX and Mk XIV don't truly come into their own until 27k)

[4Prop]

4prop,

The problem with limiting radio function or quality in the game is that it only affects players without squads.  Those with squads would just bypass the whole thing and use something like Ventrilo.

You may object to it on realism grounds all you like, but there is nothing HTC can do about modern communications.



(You also may want to review your opinion of Spitfires above 15k.  The Mk VIII and the Mk XVI do fine above 15k and the Mk IX and Mk XIV don't truly come into their own until 27k)

Oh I complelty agree with the radio arguement. I wasnt saying against it. I'm very fine with our in game comms how they are.

all of my encounters (that I can remember) with spitfires above 15k has ended with the spitfire going down. I've only really had trouble with the 14 and 9 at that alt. My Jug eats them up and spitfires them outta the sky <dumb joke. Another thing is, how often does a spitfire even climb that high. I've only ran into a few. The only spitfires Ive ever flown are the MK.1,14,and 16. the only spitfire I've ever taken above 10k was the 14. shes a beaut with some air under her wings. but the amount of ammo and fuel capacity isnt very suitable for a long range escort (IMHO) Even if changed to 1.00 FBR I wouldnt ever consider any spitfire model a total threat. even a 5v1 at that alt I think a spitfire is outgunned and outranged by a P47 D25,D40,M,and N, P51D, TA152,190D..you know, most of you other high alt fighters. Also, how many spit dweebs have even been above the clouds? spitfires are a totally different plane above 15k. much less 20,25,and 30k. So the way I see it, a 1.00 FBR wouldnt do much "damage" to gameplay. as far as the LA7s up above 20k, i could walk faster.