Me410

[Wmaker]

I expected about 10-12mph more, according to WMaker's and Moot's research.

Well I don't quite know where you got that from. If you meant this post of mine: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,322913.msg4215192.html#msg4215192

The 329mph on the deck was on the only figure that was based on data/extrapolation. The 329-340mph was just speculation based on the notion of smoothing the surfaces and the fact that given the amount of power I wouldn't be too surprised if data showing better figures does indeed exist, I just hadn't/haven't seen any but Pyro might have. Based on the fact that Pyro arrived practically to the same figure (328mph), it looks like HTC didn't have any other speed data either.

Filling the seams and holes to make them flush with the surface. However, if it managed 337+ mph while filled and polished running on DB 605s...

Interesting! Could you provide a data set or a source where this info is from?

[Debrody]

Its not even 328mph. With only 2 20mms and 7.92s, 25% fuel, i couldnt get it over 325, even after 5 mins of wep usage.
That 3mph isnt making any difference tho.

Edit: if anyone has reliable historical data, speed curves, etc, would you post them here please?

[Denniss]

If you closely examine the droptanks you'll see differences to the Bf 110 installation, especially regarding the obviously fixed tailfin on the DT.

Rechlin test with the Me 410A-1 showed the following speeds: 490/485 km/h at sea level with 9.5t/11.3t weight and 590/575 km/h at FTH (alt not given but between 6 and 7km). All speed data with climb/combat power, not Notleistung/WEP.
Speedloss for 4x 50kg bombs is given as 10km/h.
Service ceiling is given as 10km at 9.5t and 8400m at 11.3t

[Wmaker]

Its not even 328mph. With only 2 20mms and 7.92s, 25% fuel, i couldnt get it over 325, even after 5 mins of wep usage.
That 3mph isnt making any difference tho.

Well, I certainly got it to 320mph on the deck. Had extra 2x20mms (four total) and started with 50% fuel, don't remember how much I got when I tested it. It does 320mph with DT racks. I would have thought they'd slow it down more.

Edit: if anyone has reliable historical data, speed curves, etc, would you post them here please?

This is the one in that post of mine I linked to. I've seen only two speeds curves for 410.

[Denniss]

Me 410 curve is consistent with the Rechlin curve although Rechlin had it some km/h lower. polished surfaces in this test?
Also strange steps in the DB 605 powered aircraft you wouldn't expect for the fluid-coupled supercharger but for a standard two-speed supercharger.

[Debrody]

Thanks! It explains a lot.
Some stuff i noticed:
-just as like Denniss said, the 109's speed curve isnt even close to the 109Gs modelled in AH. They look very simmilar to the Spitfire8's two staged Merlins. The top speeds at sea level and altitude matches fairly good tho.
-the 410's one is rather close to the one modelled in AH, there are some differences tho
-at sea level, it does 510kmph ~ 318mph, by the chart, its about the same as in AH (1.3 ata)
-at 2km ~ 6k feet altitude, the AH's 410 does ~335mph at 1.3 ata, thats significantly less than what the chart says: 562kmph ~ 351mph. In AH, the plane only reaches it at 10k.
-the absolute top speed is exactly the same in AH and on this chart, along with the top speed altitude.
-the chart says, 9500kg~20800lbs, mit waffen, thats about 40% fuel with the lightest gun configuration. Very close to the circumstances of how i tested it.

Still cant understand the extremely poor instanteous turn rate, even tho the relatively isnt too bad wing loading.

May i suggest reviewing the speed/altitude chart near 6-10K?

[Wmaker]

Yeh, the curves don't look correct for a fluid coupled supercharger. I think the reason for that is just the fact that they've done the flying/math with limited amount of altitude sample and simply connected the dots with straight lines.

They look very simmilar to the Spitfire8's two staged Merlins.

Not that it matters in this context and I know what you mean but just wanted to mention that "stage" and "gear/speed" are two different things. Stage tells you the amount of impellers and speed/gear tells in how many different gears/speeds the impellers turn at.

-at 2km ~ 6k feet altitude, the AH's 410 does ~335mph at 1.3 ata, thats significantly less than what the chart says: 562kmph ~ 351mph. In AH, the plane only reaches it at 10k.

Ok. I haven't checked at other altitudes yet. If that's the case I hope it'll get changed.

Still cant understand the extremely poor instanteous turn rate, even tho the relatively isnt too bad wing loading.

Well, it easily has the highest wing loading of any fighter in AH except the Me262. Funnily enough, I did some stall speed calculations using some airfoil data based the Me410 foil. At ~9500kg weight the AH Me410 stalls allmost exactly at the speed I had calculated.

[Denniss]

Me 410 with standard guns and 50% fuel weights about 9350kg, with full fuel and 1000kg of bombs weight is given as 11244kg in Rechlin Ladeplan.
The projected A-2 and A-3 are given as 11030 and 10255 kg respectively.

BTW the only option I can think of to get those steps into a DB605 curve is the use of MW-50 and it kicking-out at a given alt.

[Debrody]

Well, it easily has the highest wing loading of any fighter in AH except the Me262. Funnily enough, I did some stall speed calculations using some airfoil data based the Me410 foil. At ~9500kg weight the AH Me410 stalls allmost exactly at the speed I had calculated.

Let me correct myself, my statement that the p-47 has higher wingloading was wrong. At 13000 lbs, its only 43.5lbs/sq.feet, while the 410 is at 51.5lbs/sq.feet (at 20000lbs), while the p-38 is at 46.3lbs/sq.feet (at 15000lbs).
Another example why wiki is wrong, plz forgive me.
Anyway, the 410's instanteous turn rate is expected to be ~10-12% worse than the p38's (withouth flaps), based on the wingloading. It feels much worse, but thats highly objective.

One more thing, i couldnt catch it at first time: 109G6 mit DB605A, 1.3 ata, by the chart it reaches 630kmph~393mph at 1.3 ata, and at 21k altitude. According to the AH planes speed chart:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/component/option,com_ahplaneperf/Itemid,221/view,ahplaneperf/index.php
it reaches the same ~393mph, at the same 21.5k altitude, but at 1.42 ata (wep). The highest speed it can reach in AH at 1.3 ata is ~385mph at 23k altitude.
Im curious if it can be reviewed too. Looking forward for the HTC staff's answer.

Thanks in advance,
Debrődy

[Denniss]

~630km/h is correct for the Bf 109 G-6 with 1.3 ata, with 1.42 ata it's ~645 km/h. 1943/early 1944 production aircraft with a good finish assumed, the late-war a/c (quantity over quality) will be a tad slower.

[Debrody]

~630km/h is correct for the Bf 109 G-6 with 1.3 ata, with 1.42 ata it's ~645 km/h. 1943/early 1944 production aircraft with a good finish assumed, the late-war a/c (quantity over quality) will be a tad slower.

Exactly, Sir, but 645kmph is ~ 403mph. The Ah's G6 cant get faster than 393mph (630kmph), even with wep (1.42), also even slower at the standard 1.3 ata.

[GScholz]

Interesting! Could you provide a data set or a source where this info is from?

I'm sorry, but I was responding to Debrody's post (quoted below). Perhaps he has the info you want.

Lets start with its top speed. 325 mph at sea level with the lightest setup. Its the same as the hungarian produced Me-210Ca (powered by DB605Ds).

Actually, come to think of it... The DB 605DM/DB/DC with MW50 would produce equal or more power than the DB 603A...

[230G]

The reason I think that it would have made more sense to put a beaufighter in the game was because unlike the 410 the beaufighter actually saw a lot of service in the war. The 410 was considered a failure back then and I have to agree.

 With that argument, the Oscar is long overdue, eh?

     230G

[GScholz]

How nice it is to have a civil discussion about these things. Not like back in the day... Me likes! 

[IrishOne]

How nice it is to have a civil discussion about these things. Not like back in the day... Me likes! 

your mother wears combat boots!