Unrecoverable stall/spin in ta152

[icepac]

I believe the nasm Ta152 might have worn a standard 190d tail at one time but with the extension of the fuselage..........which happens to be where the mess was.

[Mister Fork]

Icepac - I know exactly what you're talking about - I've spun a Ta-152 from 20,000ft and couldn't recover a while ago.  I was trying to rope a P-51 but I chalked it up to just a quirk but it stailled tail-first trying to hammerhead and then fell and spun like a brick - no input would adjust or recover. Engine on/off, auto climb, stick all the way down, opposite rudder, nothing worked.  It was as if someone took the 152 by the wing and spun it like a frisbee.  

But posting it here just attracks trolls - film it and post in the bugs report forum. .

[skorpx1]

I have a film of me offline forcing myself into a stall in the Ta-152. I had an airstart of 20k and forced myself into the "Spinning sideways" and into the "Falling tail first" stalls.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ug26ke2a3cxhnca

I had pushed full downward trim, dumped flaps as far as possible, played with the throttle/rudders and I toyed around with my ailerons/elevators quite a bit.

I don't know how much help this will be but I hope it helps a little bit. I had 100% fuel and full load out of ammo. No DT.

[RealDeal]

To brag he flies at 30,000ft.

ack-ack

Looks like you have some competion

[JunkyII]

Krup and kilo brought up the best ways to recover from the stall.

Riding that stall is tricky and it often leads to you on the guys six that you were trying to evade.

You will get a split second to push your nose down since this stall normally comes on a nose up turn.

When the tail slides out this is when the nose drops for a second.

 

Oh and I have no idea on the physics in game...just from personal experience

[Babalonian]

I checked e6b and it said about 12 minutes fuel left as I fell through 10k feet.

I had drained the aft tank probably 2 hours earlier and ammo was around 25% remaining.

10k and being in a full tail-first stall only gives you a few seconds to save it (or not).  Anything lower than 10k and you need to catch it immediatley or you simpley don't have enough altitude to work with.

Less ammo means less weight in a 152 foward of the CoG.  As I said earlier, even empty it has a tail-heavy tendancy.

Was playing around with this 152 stall thing.....

Fuel load doesn't seem to have any effect on entry or recovery.  I started with full tanks and burned off the Forward, then Left and Right.  Even with fuel only in the aft tank I detected no difference in how the 152 handled.

The trick for recovery is to get the nose below the horizon.  Dropping gear and flaps seemed to help get the nose down some.  I was using forward stick and then full rudder on whichever side the airplane was banked toward to kind of "slice" the nose below the horizon.  Once nose low standard spin recovery worked, the most altitude lost after starting the recovery was 6000' with the least being 2600'.  Using idle power seemed to make for a quicker recovery than full power----and idle power seemed to make for a more reliable entry to the stall as well.

The 152 seems to have some issues with yaw/yaw stability/yaw control.  Several times the ball would be full deflection, rudder to correct had no effect.  This seemed to happen more with a steep deck angle.

Icepac - I know exactly what you're talking about - I've spun a Ta-152 from 20,000ft and couldn't recover a while ago.  I was trying to rope a P-51 but I chalked it up to just a quirk but it stailled tail-first trying to hammerhead and then fell and spun like a brick - no input would adjust or recover. Engine on/off, auto climb, stick all the way down, opposite rudder, nothing worked.  It was as if someone took the 152 by the wing and spun it like a frisbee. 

But posting it here just attracks trolls - film it and post in the bugs report forum. .

Trust me brother, don't go down that path, I've been there and done that on this BBS with the 152.  It gets chalked up to accelerating into a stall (the only nasty stall a 152 has) due to excessive yaw brought on by the adverse effects of such a wide wing rolling so quickly in conjunction with the aircraft's aftward-favoring CoG (If I remember the whole episode correctly).

[colmbo]

Less ammo means less weight in a 152 foward of the CoG.  As I said earlier, even empty it has a tail-heavy tendancy.

I don't feel that an aft CG on the 152 has an adverse effect.  The testing I was doing the other day I did starting with full fuel then ended up with forward and wing tanks empty and the 30mm cannon rounds empty.  Didn't notice any difference in tendency to depart or recovery regardless of CG.

[icepac]

10k and being in a full tail-first stall only gives you a few seconds to save it (or not).  Anything lower than 10k and you need to catch it immediatley or you simpley don't have enough altitude to work with.

The tail stall started at 30,000 feet.

[greens]

noob


ill <S> you when you learn how to recover from a ta stall from 5000 ft


greens

[Krusty]

The straight-down-tail-slide is only a minor part of the problem. That condition is bad, but it rarely happens simply because you have to try to slide tail first to get into it.

What is the main issue is that you can be flying along in a perfectly normal part of the flight envelope and for no reason your tail will slide out from under you like you lost your stabs and THEN put you into the tail slide.

My distinction is not that the tail slide is hard to get out of, it's that you shouldn't get INTO IT in the first place in most times it's happened to me. Basic, controlled, well above stall speed maneuvers, and for no reason (even with moderate inputs, NOT forcing it to do bad things) your tail will just whip under and you're flying backwards.

[JunkyII]

Greens....do it on purpose then come talk to some TA sticks.

Krusty I do find that funny as well...I can go straight vertical in a TA slow to almost zero speed and preform a stall maneuver quite easily but when I preform a high speed high yo yo I can put myself into a stall which if i miss correcting it in the first second it takes me a minute to get my nose below my tail...

I don't know...seems off

[Chalenge]

The straight-down-tail-slide is only a minor part of the problem. That condition is bad, but it rarely happens simply because you have to try to slide tail first to get into it.

What is the main issue is that you can be flying along in a perfectly normal part of the flight envelope and for no reason your tail will slide out from under you like you lost your stabs and THEN put you into the tail slide.

My distinction is not that the tail slide is hard to get out of, it's that you shouldn't get INTO IT in the first place in most times it's happened to me. Basic, controlled, well above stall speed maneuvers, and for no reason (even with moderate inputs, NOT forcing it to do bad things) your tail will just whip under and you're flying backwards.

Really? So in the hundreds of hours I have in the AH Ta152 I should have had this happen, right?

Didn't happen. Not once. I routinely do the falling leaf in for landing (WW1 definition, not the ridiculous Pitts Special thing) and reversing the slip hasn't even caused it. Of course I don't bang the rudder or ailerons over either.

Stay off the ailerons in the stall.

[skorpx1]

Really? So in the hundreds of hours I have in the AH Ta152 I should have had this happen, right?

"Hundreds of hours"
Well lets look at your stats.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/players.php
2 kills in it this tour so far. - All bomber kills.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/players.php
3 kills in it the previous tour. - All bomber kills.

Yep. That's definitely "hundreds of hours" in it.

Now, from what iv'e gathered here by just reading posts about you, what do you know about stalls when all you do is pick people from 25k and all of your kills are bombers in the 152 for the present and previous tour? I'm curious to know how you could even stall when climbing out from your dive, its not too hard to level out once you get to the desired alt before you start stalling.

[kilo2]

Well I have never had it happen in either. The majority of my sorties the last 2 years have been in the 152 and I have never just stalled out "for no reason."

Now entering the tail stall is easy to do in a couple of situations way above stall speed. A tight barrel roll to the right even at high speed can enter you into the tail stall for example.

[Chalenge]

"Hundreds of hours"
Well lets look at your stats.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/players.php
2 kills in it this tour so far. - All bomber kills.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/players.php
3 kills in it the previous tour. - All bomber kills.

Yep. That's definitely "hundreds of hours" in it.

Now, from what iv'e gathered here by just reading posts about you, what do you know about stalls when all you do is pick people from 25k and all of your kills are bombers in the 152 for the present and previous tour? I'm curious to know how you could even stall when climbing out from your dive, its not too hard to level out once you get to the desired alt before you start stalling.

Hey dweeblet, go back more than a few months. Check September when I shot down more than 100 bombers at high altitude. 129 kills to 1 death. Yes, bomber kills which is what the 152 was designed to do. What people 'say' about me doesn't concern me. It's just DA cry babies trying to make themselves feel better about not being able to kill at the same level. Uptown got his start in the Sick Puppies (not a bright student). It took him years after leaving us to finally understand what I was trying to tell him. His 'pony skills' are a combination of what I taught him and the inner 'niki dweeb' he really is.

I also fly the P-51 in bomber escort role. My K/D is unmatched with it also.

All these 'super elite' turn fighting dweebs are still at stage one. Yes, they rule the BBS, but they do not rule the skies. No one does. Any 'super elite' mouths on this board can be killed by the freshest noob off the Internet on any given day. So enjoy your fantasy, but realize it doesn't mean anything to anybody except you. Really.