Author Topic: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....  (Read 12143 times)

Offline Motherland

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #180 on: September 22, 2014, 06:18:20 PM »
Help me.  What does pro-vaccines and/or anti-vaccines have anything to do with metals in the atmosphere?  

Did you watch the video yet?  It sounds like there is a disconnect between your comments and the plot of the video.
People who spin weird pseudo scientific stories about vaccines use the same gaps in logic and scientific illiteracy of their viewers to make up these fantastic stories about how their homeopathic medicines work, the same way these chemtrail people convince everyone there's some mystical shadow government despite what scientists have been saying for decades. As a result there tends to be a huge demographic overlap. (edit: as it turns out, the presenter in this video cites a website and a doctor that both have taken up a crusade against vaccines and science based medicine, so there's your link there)
Of course, none of these ridiculous theories has one more millimeter of ice to stand on than any other.

This guy demonstrates by 5 minutes not only that he couldn't pass a high school chemistry class, but he can't even read the abstract of the patent he's got behind him. I really don't think I want to watch the whole thing. (edit: i will anyway it's almost entertaining)

This guy uses a classic youtube conspiracy trope like its his job. Notice how nearly every time he says 'the only place this is happening is the continental US', there are multiple other blue spots on the map, sometimes that are as big or darker. He also misinterprets the data for you away from 'this is where the temperatures are anomalous (although he does state this initially)' to 'this is where it's hot and this is where it's cold', at one point stating that 'it's hotter at the north pole than it is in the continental US!'. Believing this guy almost comes down to an issue of self respect.

It also comes down to scientific literacy. i don't know whether this guy is trying to be intentionally misleading or he's just never picked up a book about paleoclimatology, but every time he says 'this is unprecedented' with one of those maps of uneven climate change laterally across the US, he's showing you a picture that could have practically been taken from a textbook in a section about what you would expect to see during a period of climactic change.

He does raise a really important issue though: "how could it switch so radically in one year?"

This is a chart of proxy data used for temperature reconstructions from various core samples going back 40k years.

Our current climate rests on a pinhead of stability that has not existed on earth in a very long time. Human civilization is extremely dependent on this stability. The current epoch starts at about 10kya, this is the holocene (the previously mentioned period of notable climate stability). You'll notice that, during the last ice age at the end of the pleistocene, the temperatures were not just colder- they were all over the place. This is why scientists warn that climate change not only brings warmer temperatures, but flashes of colder ones. The earths climate is very complex and just because it trends one way does not mean a)it happens evenly across the globe (notice that the variability in the northern hemisphere was much more severe than that of the southern hemisphere) b)it happens consistently over short time spans.

By the way, in case you're curious about what Al2O3 looks like;

You should consider that every property of the 'metals in the atmosphere' he talked about was either hilariously misinformed or worryingly misleading. If you remember back to literal high school chemistry, or maybe Chem 101 if a more recent course would be better, the properties of an ionic solid - that is, a metal cation bonded to a nonmetal anion- and then rewatch portions of this video, particularly the beginning, you'll find it pretty hilarious.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 07:55:39 PM by Motherland »


Offline Arlo

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #182 on: September 22, 2014, 06:41:30 PM »
??

The thread, from start to apparent dig-up and never finish, is a hoot riot. Please tell me you're not taking it seriously.


Offline Slash27

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #183 on: September 22, 2014, 06:45:04 PM »
Which portion should not be taken seriously? The fluoride, the GMOs, or the geo engineering?

Offline WEZEL

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #184 on: September 22, 2014, 06:54:52 PM »
 :noid

Offline Arlo

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #185 on: September 22, 2014, 07:00:14 PM »
Which portion should not be taken seriously? The fluoride, the GMOs, or the geo engineering?

The chem-trail conspiracy and every 90' branch off that (crazy) tree.  :D

Offline SEraider

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #186 on: September 22, 2014, 08:54:36 PM »
People who spin weird pseudo scientific stories about vaccines use the same gaps in logic and scientific illiteracy of their viewers to make up these fantastic stories about how their homeopathic medicines work, the same way these chemtrail people convince everyone there's some mystical shadow government despite what scientists have been saying for decades. As a result...

I am not going to lie to you that I find curious his claims of atmospheric spraying and he shows the sky in that one image nearly perfect symmetry. 

Am I 100% sure what he saying is true and correct? No

Are you 100% sure what you are saying is true and correct?

So either I am gullible or you are stubborn.  So be it and I hope you are right.  Just be sure to wear enough sunscreen and add a filter or 2 in your water supply just in case. 
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Offline Motherland

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #187 on: September 22, 2014, 09:18:48 PM »
Are you 100% sure what you are saying is true and correct?
Almost everything I've said you'd learn in the first year of a chemistry or geology/environmental science curriculum at any university. It's really basic science (with the exception of the paleoclimatological stuff but that's of special interest to me). So, yes.
There were things he talked about that, while sounding pretty funny, I could not say for sure were wrong because I don't have any experience in those fields. Everything I addressed in that post I do absolutely know that he was misrepresenting/lying about/had no idea what he was talking about.
Considering how systematically and completely every scientific 'fact' he said, that I was familiar with, was wrong (which was a good half or so of it), and he was basing most of the rest of his lecture on those 'facts', there is absolutely no reason to believe a single word of the rest of what he said.

He lies so consistently that I somewhat doubt his name is Dane Wigington.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 09:23:20 PM by Motherland »

Offline RotBaron

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #188 on: September 23, 2014, 02:07:51 AM »
For the funny thing is that I don't trust governments, yet in this instance it's total pucky.

Everytime I hear of a so-called conspiracy, I put to what I call the Newt test; Gingrich said many years ago regarding a 9/11 conspiracy that DC is "too clunky" and too big to keep a secret like that; (paraphrasing) something like would have to involve so many working parts there would be no way to keep it secret. On the other hand JFK files being sealed til several generations are long gone, wel...

Chem trails, wouldn't somebody see the planes being loaded up with the said chemicals...
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline guncrasher

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #189 on: September 23, 2014, 02:26:40 AM »
that reminds me of this reporter for the new york times who said something along the lines of "the us government cannot keep a secret, there's way too many people involved that cant keep their mouths shut."

there would be hundred's of thousands of people involved that there's no way there wouldnt be a film of it on youtube by now.  or pilots or ground crews talking on the news about it.  after all it's also their families that are being affected by this so called "truth".


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline puller

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"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
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Offline puller

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #191 on: September 23, 2014, 09:42:02 AM »
Here is a paper from the air force in 1996....and I just want to say that I'm not talking about the government using chemtrails against the population or anything like that...I'm talking about geo-engineering/weather modification
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcsat.au.af.mil%2F2025%2Fvolume3%2Fvol3ch15.pdf&ei=9oUhVJfkIYGuyASSoYDgBw&usg=AFQjCNEzlTlf2fG8fp2ZUaCaxp-8rlDEWw&sig2=vGAnOlrwQoKzIq4mwK2VzQ&bvm=bv.75775273,d.aWw   This spraying in the atmosphere isn't a conspiracy at all...it's proven science that they have been expanding on since the 40's...
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Offline SEraider

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #192 on: September 23, 2014, 11:48:14 AM »
that reminds me of this reporter for the new york times who said something along the lines of "the us government cannot keep a secret, there's way too many people involved that cant keep their mouths shut."

there would be hundred's of thousands of people involved that there's no way there wouldnt be a film of it on youtube by now.  or pilots or ground crews talking on the news about it.  after all it's also their families that are being affected by this so called "truth".


semp

Look, I am not calling this a conspiracy or a conspiracy theory.  I am just pointing out there is testimony of weather modification via geoengineering.  The government felt at the time due to the dissipation of the Ozone and skyrocketing of UV rays that metallic aerosol spraying in the upper atmosphere would benefit north America. 

And yes, I have seen interviews with pilots that "claimed" to have flown these plane.  Interestingly I would have thought they be bound by silence?
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Offline pembquist

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #193 on: September 23, 2014, 02:30:27 PM »
Back from the dead thread. The 2 fundamental problems with trying to convince a conspiracy theorist that they are wrong is that you are trying to prove a negative and that,generally, any contradictory evidence is seen as just more evidence of the extent and deception of the conspiracy. People would rather believe in order than chaos,(I believe this is part of what makes humans such excellent pattern recognizers and why we know so much about the world.)
Pies not kicks.

Offline Scherf

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Re: How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....
« Reply #194 on: September 23, 2014, 09:13:41 PM »
that reminds me of this reporter for the new york times who said something along the lines of "the us government cannot keep a secret, there's way too many people involved that cant keep their mouths shut."

there would be hundred's of thousands of people involved that there's no way there wouldnt be a film of it on youtube by now.  or pilots or ground crews talking on the news about it.  after all it's also their families that are being affected by this so called "truth".


semp

^ this
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB