Bf 110c

[Butcher]

Spit VIII in AH eats the Bf110C-4b for lunch, just maybe not in a horizontal turn fight.

That said, I do think the Bf110s are going to come off worse than they are when they get updated, just like the Hurricanes did.

Hurricane should of been updated sooner, as the 110s need to be. However as far as 110s go it goes back to the basic logic - I've flown all planes in the BOB scenario at least twice, I've landed 9 in a Hurricane and 9 in a 109, cant remember when did in 110s but I remember it was a great sortie. It comes down to how much a pilot knows and whether he can fly the plane to its absolute best. Someone like midway won't ever understand since he sticks to one or two key moves in one airframe. You can't pull the same moves in a Spit 1 for example, plus your SA and knowledge of what other aircraft perform counts as well.

Its the text book learning curve some will fail and continue to fail as Midway has, and if you fail in a Spit 8 vs a 110c, then you seriously need to reconsider learning new grounds.

[Oldman731]

I've flown all planes in the BOB scenario at least twice

In AvA the BoB setup runs frequently, so the 1940 plane set is well known.  Back in AHI the 110C ruled the air.  With the modified flight model in AH2 it lost enough of its prior advantage that it no longer was the fighter of choice for the Luftwaffe pilots.  Nonetheless, it is still not the sitting duck that every BoB account I've ever seen portrayed it to be.  I suspect that what Morfiend said has something to do with this:  In AH we use flaps routinely in a dogfight, whereas in the war that was quite rare (except for some few planes equipped with combat flaps, like the 51).

- oldman

[Butcher]

In AvA the BoB setup runs frequently, so the 1940 plane set is well known.  Back in AHI the 110C ruled the air.  With the modified flight model in AH2 it lost enough of its prior advantage that it no longer was the fighter of choice for the Luftwaffe pilots.  Nonetheless, it is still not the sitting duck that every BoB account I've ever seen portrayed it to be.  I suspect that what Morfiend said has something to do with this:  In AH we use flaps routinely in a dogfight, whereas in the war that was quite rare (except for some few planes equipped with combat flaps, like the 51).

- oldman

I don't recall ever dropping flaps in scenarios, in fact I cannot even recall the last scenario I did. I mainly keeping my alt and speed and pushing the fight below me works best and always has. Biggest thing I run into is SA gets torn to shreds when you run into 15+ enemy bandits, secondly pilots with lack of high alt experience have a tendency to dive if not nose down during turns giving up alt if not going to the deck. Fights usually end up two ways that Ive seen - either you dive out to the deck, or lose your squad in a blink of an eye - sometimes first moves do that in a fight.

Here's a prime example, was at 20k in an SBD during the last FSO, we were ordered to fight if we wanted, or continue to the target, instead we got bounced - I turned nose on and scuffled with two zeros that  dove to the deck, by time i realized what happened, I lost track of the entire fight and my squad.
I proceeded to the target to drop my bomb, and found 3-4 zeros on the deck tangling with some F4F's and SBDs, shot them down and went home. A few SBD pilots were known to dogfight zeros, but where the zero had no armor and great pilots - I believe the  110C is simply overly protrayed in Aces High. There is a major difference between the SBD and 110, however in almost all conditions, veteran pilots and aces who flew the 110C will tell you its simply outclassed in every which way at the battle of britain.

Ironic as the 110 pilots were suppose to be the best of the best in the Luftwaffe as well.

[Ack-Ack]

How can that be realistic?

You have yet to show anything they did was unrealistic that would indicate the Bf110C is over modeled. 


ack-ack

[Butcher]

You have yet to show anything they did was unrealistic that would indicate the Bf110C is over modeled. 
ack-ack

I think Midway is stuck in my shoes when I was still an idiot learner many years ago, he failed to learn from his mistakes as I did when I faced you in a P38 many times - I'd try to reverse only to have you buzzsaw a wing off and I do and remember such angry words spewed at ya.
Eventually I learned, something he needs to do as well.

[morfiend]

In AvA the BoB setup runs frequently, so the 1940 plane set is well known.  Back in AHI the 110C ruled the air.  With the modified flight model in AH2 it lost enough of its prior advantage that it no longer was the fighter of choice for the Luftwaffe pilots.  Nonetheless, it is still not the sitting duck that every BoB account I've ever seen portrayed it to be.  I suspect that what Morfiend said has something to do with this:  In AH we use flaps routinely in a dogfight, whereas in the war that was quite rare (except for some few planes equipped with combat flaps, like the 51).

- oldman

  Oldman!

  Yes the 110c lost abit when the airflow code changed but it also gained abit in the flaps department and this I think make the difference. IIRC the flaps in the 110 and 109 are similar and as you said they weren't really made as a combat flap but in Aces High we all regularly use flaps,which is as you said not likely done often in RL.

  I am suspect for 1 part of the flight envelope and that's in the high speed realm,it doesn't seem to suffer from the control issues that the 109 series has and I can only wonder if this is correct or not. I am willing to except HTC take on the flight models,unless I see concrete evidence to show otherwise. And a wiki citation just doesn't cut it in my books.


    

[FLOOB]

Middy,

You, like a lot of newer players tend to turn nose down,I guess the speed makes you feel secure but if you understand the energy egg the best turns are done nose up,well the tightest turns.

I notice that too Midway. Not only does the turning circle get bigger when you are nose down but more importantly you're giving up altitude. I see players do this a lot. Instead of flat turning they end up doing a spiral dive, it's as if they expect you to chase them down the spiral. And they find themselves low and disadvantaged when you don't.

[Midway]

I notice that too Midway. Not only does the turning circle get bigger when you are nose down but more importantly you're giving up altitude. I see players do this a lot. Instead of flat turning they end up doing a spiral dive, it's as if they expect you to chase them down the spiral. And they find themselves low and disadvantaged when you don't.

 

[mbailey]

Ahhh Dastardly in the 110C......good times.....great fights

 

[GScholz]

It is worth noting that the AH 110C has C3 fueled DB601P engines and didn't see service until very late in the Battle of Britain. So it is not really representative of the early BoB battles where it served as a pure day fighter. It is also worth mentioning that the 110C held its own against the Hurricane. Against the Spitfire however, it suffered a four to one loss rate, at least.

That said... Anyone who loses a 1-on-1 against a 110 in any mark of Spitfire has no one to blame but himself.

[JUGgler]

Doubt that... as you should know.

Fact is that the 110c turns on a dime and can maneuver better than most anything else.  You fight JUGgler in his 110c and you too will see.  Without the 110c, JUGgler barely has a chance.  It's the aeroplane in this case, not the pilot.

It just seems contradictory to the above description of the 110c.

Umm, I believe I worked you over more often with the G2 

Mid, if I used any spit and you used a 110, umm, I would destroy you !

Losing to the 110 while using any spit is purely "self imolation" in other words, it's your fault 

Oh, be quiet now!


JUGgler

[Midway]

Umm, I believe I worked you over more often with the G2  

Mid, if I used any spit and you used a 110, umm, I would destroy you !

Losing to the 110 while using any spit is purely "self imolation" in other words, it's your fault  

Oh, be quiet now!


JUGgler

I do not recall you working me over in a G2, other than the HO one time... but that's another story.

I am probably wrong about the 110c, but I couldn't reconcile your fighting in the 110c vs my Spitfire.  You know that the gymnastics you do in it surprises Spitfires very often... I've heard you say it more than once... and given its RL reputation as a poor maneuvering fighter... well... nuff said.

I may have learned some things in this thread... we will see if you show your 110c again as to results.  My nose will be up prominently upon any encounter with a 110c, you can be sure of that.

I still can't reconcile the AH Bf 110c from its real life reputation, but have no more facts to offer.

[GScholz]

<-- Flew the 110 as a fighter before it was cool. Still... whenever i faced a Spit-driver that knew what he was doing I invariably lost. Luckily they are few and far between.

[Midway]

<-- Flew the 110 as a fighter before it was cool. Still... whenever i faced a Spit-driver that knew what he was doing I invariably lost. Luckily they are few and far between.


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[nrshida]

I do not recall you working me over in a G2, other than the HO one time... but that's another story.

That's because in order to protect your fragile glass palace of uberness you employ selective memory.

There was a marvelous opportunity to learn through this incident obscured to you by your own bootstrapping bragging and self delusion.