He 111

[Fish42]

Hmmm When i think about it I imagine it could be more helpful than just holding still and waiting 'till you got shot down. Heck, you might even get a off a shot from your otherwise near useless MG/FF ! 

It worked quite well, my gunner oiled and smoked a few planes, but no kills. Even kept a 262 honest as he did not want to risk HOing 2 20mms.
You have to be very careful as the wings don't take much to break off.

[Babalonian]

Despite everyone saying its crap, I have a good impression of it. Not real fast, but of course neither is a B-17. Guns are positioned a bit stupidly (for AH use anyway), but its nice and light at the controls.

Once I got down to one bomber, I had a fantastic fight with a 109F-4, and gave a mossie a rough time.

Fun little bomber overall.

It seems as versatile as its ordnance packages, which are nice but if more selection were available to us in the ordnance loadout I feel like it could be that much better.  It's definetley not fast or durable, but at delivering ordnances and with the choices you have to deliver it's one of the best bombers in the game atm.

[LCADolby]

That's my main bomber 

[caldera]

That's my main bomber 

I think it's over-modeled.  Just like the 110C. 

[Franz Von Werra]

The front 20mm's both seem to have a very limitted range of motion, why I made other thread in wish list for the whole plane to move when we reach a limit. The pilot was right next to these gunners anyways, he would surely 'help" as required. The rudder trick alone isn't making the grade.

Would also be nice if pilots could still jump to gunner stations when had an extra player on board. Better still, the ability to add as many players as crew members on planes.

By the way, in 1939 and then some, the he-111 was probably the most advanced aircraft in the world, more complex than just a fighter plane... example, some Polish pilot got a medal for ramming three he-111s, he told others how to do it, then he died on the fouth attempt. Yes too luftwaffe planes were more advanced than even English planes, for example fuel injection, spit flaps were only 'up' or 'down.' Also, spits didn't have variable pitch props, right? Also radiator position, etc etc.
Game features may not show but 111ks only real probs in early war was Enland's radar. That said, no bomber is safe from fighters,  not even the Ameican 'heavies' with there overwhelming numbers.

Give the luftwaffes the 177 and then we can talk peace! :-P

[Zacherof]

Perhaps the first thing I can agree on with you

[Butcher]

The front 20mm's both seem to have a very limitted range of motion, why I made other thread in wish list for the whole plane to move when we reach a limit. The pilot was right next to these gunners anyways, he would surely 'help" as required. The rudder trick alone isn't making the grade.

By the way, in 1939 and then some, the he-111 was probably the most advanced aircraft in the world, more complex than just a fighter plane... example, some Polish pilot got a medal for ramming three he-111s, he told others how to do it, then he died on the fouth attempt. Yes too luftwaffe planes were more advanced than even English planes, for example fuel injection, spit flaps were only 'up' or 'down.' Also, spits didn't have variable pitch props, right? Also radiator position, etc etc.
Game features may not show but 111ks only real probs in early war was Enland's radar. That said, no bomber is safe from fighters,  not even the Ameican 'heavies' with there overwhelming numbers.

Give the luftwaffes the 177 and then we can talk peace! :-P

Sorry to say Germany lacked in Bombers. True no bomber is safe from fighters, however the Americans seemed to made better ones then Germany did. The fact that the He-111 was never up gunned amazes me. Perhaps in 1940 the armament was enough to survive, its clear during the battle of britain the armament of the german luftwaffe bombers was simply not enough.
The 177 might be the only axis bomber that can actually defend itself to the target and back, assuming the engine problems don't get added - what most fail to remember is the Axis flown mostly against under armed allied planes for a good duration of the war.
Allied bombers as well, even the mighty B-17 was shown to be meat on a plate, even when its legendary durability and heavy armament, you have to consider the axis planes which had almost barely any defensive firepower and lack of durability.

[Franz Von Werra]

I think Wikipedia says in Battle of Britain:

Total aircraft:
England:  1,963
Germany: 2,550

England lost 1034 single engine fighters
Germany lost 533 single engine fighters.

Total aircraft lost:
England:   1,547 sooo by my math: 1,547 - 1034 = 513 bomber losses.
Germany: 1,887 sooo by my math: 1,887 - 533  = 1,354 bomber losses.

And this is with England having radar and fighting over friendly territory so their planes could land anywhere, get repaired and back in action rather than a loss in the channel.
So don't get too excited while talking trash about the He-111s.

And don't confuse American heavies with England heavies. B17 had way more guns and crews...
Lancaster (7,377 made) : Crew: 7: pilot, flight engineer, navigator, bomb aimer/nose gunner, wireless operator, mid-upper and rear gunners <--- 3 gunners (only 1 more than a stuka)
B17 ( 12,731 made): Crew: 10: Pilot, co-pilot, navigator, bombardier/nose gunner, top turret gunner, radio operator, waist gunners (2), ball turret gunner, tail gunner <--- 6 gunners
B24 (18,482 made) : Crew: 11 (pilot, co-pilot, navigator, bombardier, radio operator, nose turret, top turret, 2 waist gunners, ball turret, tail gunner)  <--- 6 gunners

Check this website for losses:
http://www.usshancockcv19.com/history6.htm

177's were fixed but was too late far as Germany's situation, check this thread, its all been discussed.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,345695.0.html

No I do NOT hate England, again this is because some dumdumpoopyhead is talking mess about luftwaffes again.   

USA wasn't as big as Russia, but it was further away from Germany than England was... ~ by me!  

[Brooke]

I like the He 111.  I use it for torpedo runs on fleets (which because of 5" is usually hopeless, but I sneak in sometimes).  It seems OK in sturdiness, I like its defensive fire a little better than the Ju 88, and it looks cool (like a sea creature from a much earlier branch of the evolutionary tree).

[Tank-Ace]

It feels very nimble for a bomber, too. Almost fighter-like in some respects.

[LCADolby]

I think it's over-modeled.  Just like the 110C. 

It's underpowered... like the brain cells in a Midway. 

[Franz Von Werra]

For nimble, also try the ju88 with 25% fuel too short of flights but 50% makes it just a bit heavy too... this is without bombs of course.

It has 2 of everything, just about, so by default, it has 'durability.'
Rear guns, most fighters line up riiight exactly behind it, where the ju88 can put some 'sting' - 3 mg's... no fighter can stay back there forever, so it gives the ju88 a chance if fighter is acting 'stupid' - maybe a better word, 'careless.'
Ju88's do turn, big wings, without bombs they are slightly light, someone want to post wing-loading and power-loading stuff? And the front mg again, has tons of amo, so can spray.

I once shot down an f4u after a few mins dogfight! 

Difference between ju88 and he111 ???
The ju88 PILOT can fire his forward guns.
The he111 PILOT can not, he must first move to the station... BOO !!!
New wish, make all bombers able to fire their forward weapons with normal trigger!
Maybe have the 2ndary trigger connected to all the other guns to just fire straight out?

[tmetal]

The Ju88 pilot can fire his ONE FIXED forward firing gun (because it is aimed by flying the plane), any gun that is on a flexable mount and required a gunner to aim and fire it should not be firable by the pilot. It really is that simple.

[Zacherof]

The Ju88 pilot can fire his ONE FIXED forward firing gun (because it is aimed by flying the plane), any gun that is on a flexable mount and required a gunner to aim and fire it should not be firable by the pilot. It really is that simple.

Although we can all agree a 13mm or 20mm option would be cool

[SmokinLoon]

Actually, the climb rate of the He111 is rather good.  No, it does not cover a lot of ground in doing so, but it can climb to 15k faster than many other bombers.  The downside is the speed in which it gets in and out of a hot spot, at best it is going to move at 260 TAS.  I'm a bit surprised the Germans put both 20mm's at the front.  It is fun though getting hits on an over-shooting fighter.   

The He111 is a prime example of a good bomber than needs an escort.  It has very useful bomb load out options.  It is sad that many leave it behind because they refuse the challenge and/or can't get a squad mate to escort them in a fighter.  The 109F-4, 109G-2, and 190A-5 are excellent and period correct escorts.  Try it sometime.      Heaven forbid anyone takes up a challenge.