Bf-109F Ordinance

[Franz Von Werra]

Bring back the g10   

[Karnak]

Bring back the g10   

Can't bring back something we never had.

[Megalodon]

How's this for a deal?

Create a sub variant called Bf-109F-2 with 1200ps as a real contemporary to early birds like the in-game Spitfire V, and then add back bombs and extra guns back to Bf-109F-4 and reclassify that as mid war plane.  Our in-game 109F-4 is basically a mid war plane in respect to power ratings and should be reclassified accordingly.  It only got clearance to use its full power of 1350ps as late as 1942.

I think this is a good idea.... we have 2 G models!

I think more will clamore for the E-7 tho. Hey!!.. 2 E models....... and away the go the 109 dweebs are getting ahead of the Spit dweebs at the 1/4 pole, ...the Spit dweebs rally back at the 1/2 mile pole with a SpitVc and a Spit 7,...  at the 3/4 pole 109's add the G10 and at the finish line, here comes Arlo in a 109b.... it's Spit's 7 and 109's 9


 

 


Sorry   Opening day <Hat Day WOOWOO> tommorrow... where the turf meets the surf At Ol DelMar... take a plane, take a train, take a car.

Takin the sled,

[Perrine]

Bring back the g10   

Can't bring back something we never had.

I've seen charts and tables for G-10...   it's basically like a 109G-14 but with clean K-style nose and with power unit tuned for medium-high altitude duty as opposed to low-medium exhibited by G-14.

[Perrine]

I think this is a good idea.... we have 2 G models!

I think more will clamore for the E-7 tho. Hey!!.. 2 E models....... and away the go the 109 dweebs are getting ahead of the Spit dweebs at the 1/4 pole, ...the Spit dweebs rally back at the 1/2 mile pole with a SpitVc and a Spit 7,...  at the 3/4 pole 109's add the G10 and at the finish line, here comes Arlo in a 109b.... it's Spit's 7 and 109's 9


 

 


Sorry   Opening day <Hat Day WOOWOO> tommorrow... where the turf meets the surf At Ol DelMar... take a plane, take a train, take a car.

Takin the sled,

It's actually a tie if we bring in 2 significant Spitfire subvariants:

Spitfire XII



Spitfire LF V (clipped wing with +16 boost)

[Denniss]

The G-10 is basically a G-14/AS with a 605DB engine and probably some other small improvements/adaptions from the 109K development.
The G-14/AS already had the streamlined nose (just like former /AS variants).

[Krusty]

Not sure how you can pretend to claim the 109F-4 we have is a "mid war" variant... What bollocks.

The F-2 had a little less horsepower, yes, but you can't only add the bomb rack to the F-4 because the bomb rack was introduced on the F-2! F-2s were running bomb raids over the channel then sticking around to dogfight after ords were dropped.

I'd be happy to have an F-2, as a step between E-4 and F-4, but it would have to have the same bombrack opion as the F-4. Neither should have gondolas, though.

[Perrine]

Not sure how you can pretend to claim the 109F-4 we have is a "mid war" variant... What bollocks.

F-4 in-game's got power levels not used for its intended time frame (early war, '41).  It's is like giving the in-game Spitfire V a +16 boost and use and classify it as early war plane.

Here's the rule of thumb

40-41 = early
42-43 = mid
44-45 = late war

and my solution

How's this for a deal?

Create a sub variant called Bf-109F-2 with 1200ps as a real contemporary to early birds like the in-game Spitfire V, and then add back bombs and extra guns back to Bf-109F-4 and reclassify that as mid war plane.  Our in-game 109F-4 is basically a mid war plane in respect to power ratings and should be reclassified accordingly.  It only got clearance to use its full pwoer of 1350ps as late as 1942.

[GScholz]

Source?

[Krusty]

Indeed.. what source?

I've seen documents listing 1.42 ata which are dated 1941. I've also seen 1941 charts showing that 1.3 is the 30-minute power setting (NOT the max power setting).

[Krusty]

Edit: Going back to this supposed Bf109F power conspiracy.....

F-1s were only being delivered to JG2 in April of 1941.

In September of 1941 JG27 in Africa was being re-equipped with F-1s and F-2s.

In the fall of 1941 on the Russian front, noted ace Werner Molders was flying a F-2.

In December 1941, Reich Marshall Goring himself was flying F-2s. Notably modified with more guns, but F-2s (NOT F-4s).

A small number of F-3s were in use early in 1942 scattered amongst units.

F-4s were introduced early in 1942. F-4s were as early as February 1942 cleared for 1.42 per the flight book. That's pretty damn near since the start of their service. By May 1942 they were already working on the Bf109G-1 model, so throughout its 6 months of intense action it was always using that power setting. Some hand-me-down units on the Russian Front were given war-weary models for jabo use and ran them at reduced power, but this is also true of their jabo 109Es. They were not used as front-line fighters.


The SpitV we have is a second-half-of-1941 spit. The one with +16 was a late 1943 model and totally inappropriate. The fact of the matter is that the same spit was in use when the Bf109F-4 arrived to engage it. The F-2 was there for some months before the F-4, but let there be no doubt this constant conspiracy theory has been put to rest. We have the best appropriately matched 109F-4 and SpitVb we can have.

The F-2 would round it out better, as would the E-7 (which was struggling against SpitVs for a short while until the F-1s/F-2s could help ease the pain). By no means do we have a complete planeset, but we do have a damn good matchup with our F-4 and Vb pairing. Those that disagree haven't flown both sides of it against their historical rivals. It's quite a balanced fight.



EDIT2: Footnote on the power setting... comment from kurfurst.org:

"This clearance is in fact also supported by the February 1942 release of the Bf 109F Flugzeughandbuch, which no longer notes any limitation in regards to the DB 601 E. The new Hanbuch part 7 (Powerplant) was likely to have been re-issued because of this clearance.
See D.(Luft) T. 2109F-1 bis F-4, 'Bf 109F-1 bis F-4 Flugzeug-Handbuch', Teil 6 'Triebwerksanlage', page 7., authorized in Berlin, 24 February 1942."

[Debrody]

F-4 in-game's got power levels not used for its intended time frame (early war, '41).  It's is like giving the in-game Spitfire V a +16 boost and use and classify it as early war plane.

Here's the rule of thumb

40-41 = early
42-43 = mid
44-45 = late war

and my solution

Last i checked, the Spitfire Mk IX was available in the early war arena. True, it was almost a year ago.
Even though your point is valid, consider this please.

[LCADolby]

40-41 = early
42-43 = mid
44-45 = late war

Your early war is wrong from the perspective of France, Poland Germany, China, Japan, and Britain.
1936 Japan were at war with china
1939 Poland invaded

[GScholz]

In December 1941, Reich Marshall Goring himself was flying F-2s. Notably modified with more guns, but F-2s (NOT F-4s).

How did they shoehorn that fat bigtoe into a 109?!?  Are you sure you don't mean Adolf Galland...

[gyrene81]

How did they shoehorn that fat bigtoe into a 109?!?  Are you sure you don't mean Adolf Galland...

good question...i know he had his own train but, a 109?