Bf-109F Ordinance

[moot]

Erm, how is the He219 less appropriate than the Ta152?

Not such a great example. I mean something that didn't make it out of prototype-ish stage (arguably the 152's proto stage is previous 190 models - something like 219 doesnt have such long direct precursor history) and/or saw negligible/no combat and/or was historically insignificant and/or adds nothing useful or novel to MA/historical arenas..

IMO Probably the main "pro" for adding the 152, before being a cheap dev addition, is that it's "the" 190.  You come to this game to fly and fight these machines, and down the strand of permutation of design elements that is the Fw190 family, the 152 is IMO the optimal iteration (something between D-9 and H-1 like a 152B with short wings, low alt engine, 3x MK103 would be perfect)..  The optimal iteration of one of the main "schools" - "BnZ". The He 219 just doesn't strike as many of the right cues for inclusion, even though it's not a good example.

I'm hosed from 12h workday. Can't articulate what I mean well enough, sorry.

In any case like you said, removing anything already in game is non sense.  The 152's merit oughta be argued in a separate thread.

[gyrene81]

But isn't that the whole reason for the 152?

in the ah world i suppose so but, it would be nice if the 190s and 109s could operate where they are supposed to instead of having to take a perk plane up...

[Lusche]

in the ah world i suppose so but, it would be nice if the 190s and 109s could operate where they are supposed to instead of having to take a perk plane up...

Perk plane?

[Megalodon]

There is no reason to remove something that has already been added.  It nets us nothing.

Like gondolas and a bomb?

[Megalodon]

Not such a great example. I mean something that didn't make it out of prototype-ish stage (arguably the 152's proto stage is previous 190 models - something like 219 doesnt have such long direct precursor history) and/or saw negligible/no combat and/or was historically insignificant and/or adds nothing useful or novel to MA/historical arenas..

IMO Probably the main "pro" for adding the 152, before being a cheap dev addition, is that it's "the" 190.  You come to this game to fly and fight these machines, and down the strand of permutation of design elements that is the Fw190 family, the 152 is IMO the optimal iteration (something between D-9 and H-1 like a 152B with short wings, low alt engine, 3x MK103 would be perfect)..  The optimal iteration of one of the main "schools" - "BnZ". The He 219 just doesn't strike as many of the right cues for inclusion, even though it's not a good example.

I'm hosed from 12h workday. Can't articulate what I mean well enough, sorry.

In any case like you said, removing anything already in game is non sense.  The 152's merit oughta be argued in a separate thread.

I will make a new post on the ^Ta152 when I get home tonight..... for now:



 

[Karnak]

Like gondolas and a bomb?

I have twice explained the difference to you.  The fact that you insist on pretending not to understand simple concepts written in simple English is not cute so stop it.

[Megalodon]

I have twice explained the difference to you.  The fact that you insist on pretending not to understand simple concepts written in simple English is not cute so stop it.

You can explain all you want .........Its something we had in the game and.... It was takin away.



Any Way U Slice It,

[Karnak]

You can explain all you want .........Its something we had in the game and.... It was takin away.



Any Way U Slice It,

Ok, try this.  You can disagree with something being done while still understanding the reason(s) it was done and recognizing that it is not exactly like the other thing.

You act like you think that if you admit you understand why it was done, even though you disagree with it, you'll be giving it your support.  That is a really juvenile, black and white view of things and reality simply doesn't work that way.

[Megalodon]

Ok, try this.  You can disagree with something being done while still understanding the reason(s) it was done and recognizing that it is not exactly like the other thing.

You act like you think that if you admit you understand why it was done, even though you disagree with it, you'll be giving it your support.  That is a really juvenile, black and white view of things and reality simply doesn't work that way.

Try This

You are so full of yourself.... I dosn't matter to me why it was done, and I do understand what you were thinking when it was done and I think it was wrong...  and the fact that it was done for some spit dweebs really irks me. It was my favorite plane at the time.

If you don't like my postion to bad... and once again you don't sit in judgement of me... all seeing great 1..

and I still say that half <840> of the production of the varient warrent's them being in the game ....more than a plane that had a total 59? copies made... maybe 16 in combat ....

If you cant understand that comparison its your comprehension that has failed.

 


 Oh and Btw I meant Kilo above not you.... sorry

[Karnak]

I'm full of myself?   

I understand that you don't agree with that decision.  I understand why you don't agree with that decision.  I agree that your position is a valid and reasonable position.

I don't understand why those to things render it impossible for you to understand why taking the options for the gondolas and the bomb from the Bf109F-4 is different that removing the Ta152H-1 entirely.  It is like you are so stubbornly insistent that only your viewpoint is valid to the point that even rationally discussing the pros and cons of something is an anathema that you cannot bear.

Try stepping outside of yourself for a change.

[Megalodon]

I'm full of myself?   

I understand that you don't agree with that decision.  I understand why you don't agree with that decision.  I agree that your position is a valid and reasonable position.

I don't understand why those to things render it impossible for you to understand why taking the options for the gondolas and the bomb from the Bf109F-4 is different that removing the Ta152H-1 entirely.  It is like you are so stubbornly insistent that only your viewpoint is valid to the point that even rationally discussing the pros and cons of something is an anathema that you cannot bear.

Try stepping outside of yourself for a change.

Obviously your mixed up where did I say remove the ta 152?

[Karnak]

yes 2 full pages

Ta 152 shouldnt be in the game wanna talk about it?

I have time,

It can be read two different ways.

[Megalodon]

It can be read two different ways.

You must have special reading skills then

The 109F's gondies shouldn't have been taken away, but the 152 should be?

I am not advocating for it but it is here before many many more well deserving planes.

Can you show me more than 16 TA-152's used in combat? That includes test planes and prototypes>.....16! ...I mean were talk-in vg33, c714, B-135 and Ik-3 type stuff here. The under 20 crowd 

 

[Zacherof]

It can be read two different ways.

Whoo hoo! Karnaks radioactive!
 

I wouldn't mind having gondies on the F4. Did K4 have them as well?

[Perrine]

Like I said...

How's this for a deal?

Create a sub variant called Bf-109F-2 with 1200ps as a real contemporary to early birds like the in-game Spitfire V, and then add back bombs and extra guns back to Bf-109F-4 and reclassify that as mid war plane.  Our in-game 109F-4 is basically a mid war plane in respect to power ratings and should be reclassified accordingly.  It only got clearance to use its full pwoer of 1350ps as late as 1942.