WWII Facts

[FLOOB]

I think that it's highly likely that bombers shot down fighters.  Just in the 2nd raid on Schweinfurt it is clear that LW fighters were shot down by bombers (as there weren't US fighters present during much of the mission).

You can argue that gunners in AH kill attacking fighters with much higher probability than in real life, yes -- but you also have to admit that fighters in AH kill bombers with much higher probability than in real life.

Again, look at Schweinfurt.  229 B-17's attacked the city.  They were attacked by a couple hundred LW fighters.  60 B-17's were shot down.  35 LW fighters were shot down.  In AH, a 1:1 ratio of attacking fighters to defending bombers (note, this is 200 LW fighters and 200 bomber aircraft, not 200x3 bomber aircraft) would result in approx. 100% bomber loss and something far less than 100% fighter loss (10% maybe?).

Why?

Probably for a few reasons.  First, is that in real life pilots probably didn't press attacks the same way we do with no real physical harm on the line.  Second is that AH pilots have, on average, ten times more time fighting than even experienced real fighter pilots, and that translates into more lethality in the environment they have optimized themselves for.  Third is that it is probably easier to hit in AH than in real life (where equipment wasn't perfect, visibility was worse, there were malfunctions, vibrations, noise, extreme cold, more adrenaline pumping, movement was restricted in bulky equipment, etc.).

And bombers in real life would fly very slowly. So slow they sometimes used flaps from the IP to the target.

[Rich46yo]

Wasnt Antwerp also hit by both "V" weapons during the war?  Maybe Liege too?

[Lusche]

Wasnt Antwerp also hit by both "V" weapons during the war? 

Yes.

[Brooke]

And bombers in real life would fly very slowly. So slow they sometimes used flaps from the IP to the target.

They did fly more slowly than we fly them in AH, but I haven't ever heard of them using flaps on their bomb runs.

Fighters, too, flew more slowly -- not using full power generally except in engaging in combat, thus entering combat at less than top speed.

In scenarios, some GL's fly bombers at less than full power in order to maintain integrity of the group's formation.

[Bizman]

In scenarios, some GL's fly bombers at less than full power in order to maintain integrity of the group's formation.

Which, IMO, is a highly recommendable habit for all formation flying in AH. Minor corrections trying to get the autoclimb in synch with your leader can drop you kiloyards apart.

[FLOOB]

They did fly more slowly than we fly them in AH, but I haven't ever heard of them using flaps on their bomb runs.

Fighters, too, flew more slowly -- not using full power generally except in engaging in combat, thus entering combat at less than top speed.

In scenarios, some GL's fly bombers at less than full power in order to maintain integrity of the group's formation.

Well now you have.

[Brooke]

Well now you have.

It was my way of (I hope) politely saying that I'm not sure I believe it still.    You could be right -- maybe it's something Lancasters did at times during night bombing, and if so, why?  I don't think that US bombers did that.

[bozon]

Again, look at Schweinfurt.  229 B-17's attacked the city.  They were attacked by a couple hundred LW fighters.  60 B-17's were shot down.  35 LW fighters were shot down.  In AH, a 1:1 ratio of attacking fighters to defending bombers (note, this is 200 LW fighters and 200 bomber aircraft, not 200x3 bomber aircraft) would result in approx. 100% bomber loss and something far less than 100% fighter loss (10% maybe?).

Why?

Fighter on fighter action in AH also results in a fraction of planes shot down several times that of WWII.
When you fight from a chair with a beer in your hand, pulling 1G, and you are getting hit by bright pixels you tend to press your attacks a lot more. When on the other hand you sit on your parachute in a vibrating plane under G stress, real slugs of lead whizzing by and your wingman has just been blown to bits, you do not press your attacks as much.

[Changeup]

Fighter on fighter action in AH also results in a fraction of planes shot down several times that of WWII.
When you fight from a chair with a beer in your hand, pulling 1G, and you are getting hit by bright pixels you tend to press your attacks a lot more. When on the other hand you sit on your parachute in a vibrating plane under G stress, real slugs of lead whizzing by and your wingman has just been blown to bits, you do not press your attacks as much.

I took two rides at Cavanaugh:  Stearman and the Texan...I'm fairly convinced that anyone over 50 wouldn't be flying WWII fighter aircraft for survival...they won't survive long without several miles run a day, thin frame and in "flying" shape.  I asked the pilot to do what he could to make the last 15 mins of each flight as physically "stressful" as he could, safely of course, and it was not greatness...it was relief when it was over.  I didn't get sick...but I was glad to stop "g-grunting" and leaning into turns to avoid having the skin on my face pealed off.  It was an absolute assault on my body, lol.

By my estimation, we get about 10% of the full experience of combat flight.  Hell, half the moves people make online would cause them to pass out and auger in RL flight, lol.  Guess that's what Bighorn, Morfiend and BigRat mean when they say, "learn to fly smoothly".

[colmbo]

And bombers in real life would fly very slowly. So slow they sometimes used flaps from the IP to the target.

Not very likely, at least for the US bombers.  Both the B-17 and B-24 cruise well above max flap speed, they would have to slow significantly.  Lead slowing enough to use flaps would cause havoc in the large formations used by the 8th AF.  Simply slowing and speeding up the formation would be a mess.  On the B-17 with it's simple flap there would be little to gain by using flaps.  Using flaps/slowing would also decrease range.

You have anything documentation about using flaps on bombrun?  I gotta call BS otherwise.

[muzik]

First American fighter ace of ww2 was Portland, OR born Chinese-American, Arthur Chin.