Bring back F3 for the IL2.

[bozon]

Ahh I did not say anything at all about getting F3 mode back.
I said getting the single seat IL-2 would solve the problem of no rear view.

Oops, sorry lyric, I quoted the wrong post...

As I said I did not mention "Destroyers" that already have workable rear views that dont need F3.

C'mon? A20s, TY2s, 26s, and 25a in "dogfighting"? Like the IL2 with F3 they are all easy meat to fighters. Just dont HO the things.

A20 and TU2 are already used as fighters and quite commonly so. Every base that has its FHs hit turns into an A20 infestation. I saw not one and not two TU2s ditch their drones after bomb release (or after losing two of them to fighters) and go A2A with their fixed cannons. The B26 I used to dogfight with in the old days - you'd be surprised what it can do. Nowadays no one will take a B26 to dogfight over an A20 or TU2.

I have not use the TU2 enough, but the A20 and B26 benefit *A LOT* from F3 in a dogfight. The A20 is a capable fighter and is definitely not a bomber - it is just like the IL2, delivering bombs without a level bomb sight. The A20 also takes the "worst rear view" title away from the F6F and without the F3 view its viability as a fighter will be significantly reduced. The A20, just like the IL2 and the 110/410 has one useless gunner facing backwards. The 110/410 are used as attack planes in the same role as the A20 does. I also forgot to put the Stuka in this list. All of them should not have the F3 view.

[caldera]

I think it was more overshooting the IL and assuming they were safe climbing out.  The IL, knowing the likely path of the overshooter due to F3, would nose up and kill them before they escaped range.  Watched it happen many times and fell for it myself.

I GV a bunch and F3 in the IL would be ok with me.  I figure the pilot had a guy behind him telling him what was going on so F3 is a suitable compromise to represent that.

The guy behind him shouldn't be able to see under the nose of the plane.

[Rich46yo]

I have dog fighted in all of them too Bozon. F3 can do nothing to increase rate of climb, acceleration, ability to roll and turn, agility, to dive....ect. Of them all the A20 probably has the most worth but tell me, how many times do you see A20s upp to dog fight when FHs are still up? I would argue F3 doesnt even give you much more SA cause you still have to work buttons on your rig instead of just turning your head natural with a Track IR.

They are all last ditch suicide machines desperate to find and HO a goon before they themselves get clobbered. Add the TU2 to it. Try rolling that banana or pulling it out of a dive.

[Slade]

-1

[alpini13]

-10   no not needed

[Oldman731]

Single pilot planes should not have an external view mode

Makes sense to me.

- oldman

[Rich46yo]

Single pilot planes should not have an external view mode

So if it had a co-pilot it could see out the back better?  

It does have a bomb bay does it not?

So one plane with a bomb bay shouldnt have F3....again....why?

[Oldman731]

So if it had a co-pilot it could see out the back better?

It does have a bomb bay does it not?

So one plane with a bomb bay shouldnt have F3....again....why?

You have to draw the line somewhere.  Many of us sense that F3 gives an advantage to someone flying his plane as a fighter, and that there is no good reason for this in fighter-to-fighter combat.  Many of us recognize that planes with more than one crew member have extra eyes to spot enemy aircraft, and they should receive some benefit from this.  You have to draw the line somewhere.  Put another way:  Why shouldn't the Me-110 have F3 mode if the Il-2 does?  Both carried bombs, both had rear gunners.

- oldman

[Megalodon]

-1 ........NO get rid of F3 for everything except the TA

[Rich46yo]

You have to draw the line somewhere.  Many of us sense that F3 gives an advantage to someone flying his plane as a fighter, and that there is no good reason for this in fighter-to-fighter combat.  Many of us recognize that planes with more than one crew member have extra eyes to spot enemy aircraft, and they should receive some benefit from this.  You have to draw the line somewhere.  Put another way:  Why shouldn't the Me-110 have F3 mode if the Il-2 does?  Both carried bombs, both had rear gunners.

- oldman

Old, they were forced to take F3 away cause we were opening up your precious tanks like tin cans....PERIOD!

This will be acknowledged or my crusade will continue.

[Lusche]

Old, they were forced to take F3 away cause we were opening up your precious tanks like tin cans....PERIOD!

This is not correct, no matter how often you will repeat it.
The mass of complaints about the Il-2 F3 mode has been from an air to air action point of view.


And consequently, the A2A use of the Il-2 went down almost twice as much as the A2G usage since F3 was removed

[Rich46yo]

Yaknow if I was always able to avoid them and kill them I cant see them having been to big a problem for you.

I know what the "out" was. I also know what the real reason was.

[The Fugitive]

Who said it was a problem for him? He just gave you the over all effect in the game. He does track this information for his charts.  He doesn't just make it up.

[BnZs]

Yaknow if I was always able to avoid them and kill them I cant see them having been to big a problem for you.

I know what the "out" was. I also know what the real reason was.

Currently you are limited to searching for GVs from the pilot and gunner positions. Actual Il2 pilots were also thus limited, so this has nothing to do with GV hunting. The idea that F3 mode in any way is equivalent to having a rear gunner shout "Break right comrade!" is also utterly fatuous. If you think it such a proble. then acquire a gunner for your sorties. If you think this unfair, then consider the fact that HTC does not give fighter pilots some kind of AI wingman, no you have to convince someone to fly with you, nor do tanks get AI flak protection, they have to have another human player controlling the flak.    

[Lusche]

Yaknow if I was always able to avoid them and kill them I cant see them having been to big a problem for you.

I know what the "out" was. I also know what the real reason was.

What has that to do with me? 

It's a simple fact that the utter majority of complains about Il-2 F3 mode did NOT come from GV players, but were a result of A2A action. Both in game as well as on the BBS. The threads and posts about it are still there

So if you KNOW (with period!) that only the far less frequent GV complaints are responsible for F3 removal, you must have some special sources not available to us yet. Care to share?