Making bases easier to take

[The Fugitive]

While reading the thread about the "work in process" base layout I came across this post about changing the settings for base capture.

Make the base capture at least 50% easier to capture than it is now,( reduce town size, eliminate some acks, 2 VHS are plenty at Vbases not 4 and downtime(town) without Ninja m3s resup option 30 min);
IMO  is way to difficult to capture bases for this game and the number of players this days, this is the reason the same boring maps stalled for 6 days in MA . Let players have the satisfaction to capture trade bases and win more often, more dynamic strategic gameplay and refresh maps.

Not to single out GHI as we know there are many others, Jokers, ET and more that PROMOTE these mega missions to take a base. It doesn't take all of them, but they ALWAYS bring them all to do it. And then they say its the ONLY way to take a base these days..... its too hard to take a base with less than 30 guys. A few friends (6 guys) and I took a base last night, and started in on a second one which we would have taken had we not let the troops run to soon (didn't have the cap in place well enough). It ended up as a horde take in the end because it was pretty much the only fight going on at the time, but the point is that a few organized player CAN take a base as they are set up now.

If you bring a horde it attracts attention and so you get more defense showing up. If you spread the force out and hit 3 bases at once the forces are smaller and so don't attract as much attention. Doing so spreads the fight out and so the defense. Its up to the players to fix this issue, not HTC to make it easier. If HTC made the changes suggested above the base capture per hour would would sky rocket as the hordes would roll two and three bases, one after the other, with out landing to rearm.  It would truly turn into a race to win the war.   

[Dimebag]

one person is all it takes 

[USCH]

I took a base alone at peak time a few days ago, 1st run was lanc's at 14k, then came back "later" when a friendly was in the dar ring dogfighting.. I guess you could say it was 2 people..

[Tinkles]

While reading the thread about the "work in process" base layout I came across this post about changing the settings for base capture.

Not to single out GHI as we know there are many others, Jokers, ET and more that PROMOTE these mega missions to take a base. It doesn't take all of them, but they ALWAYS bring them all to do it. And then they say its the ONLY way to take a base these days..... its too hard to take a base with less than 30 guys. A few friends (6 guys) and I took a base last night, and started in on a second one which we would have taken had we not let the troops run to soon (didn't have the cap in place well enough). It ended up as a horde take in the end because it was pretty much the only fight going on at the time, but the point is that a few organized player CAN take a base as they are set up now.

If you bring a horde it attracts attention and so you get more defense showing up. If you spread the force out and hit 3 bases at once the forces are smaller and so don't attract as much attention. Doing so spreads the fight out and so the defense. Its up to the players to fix this issue, not HTC to make it easier. If HTC made the changes suggested above the base capture per hour would would sky rocket as the hordes would roll two and three bases, one after the other, with out landing to rearm.  It would truly turn into a race to win the war.   

In my opinion it takes less than 5 people. However, it depends on how you use those people.

(bombers being heavy set, b17, lanc etc)

1 set of bombers can level a town.
1 set of bombers can disable a base

1 player is a set of bombers
3 fighter escort
1 c47, and if a gv spawn 1 m3 for backup

so 5 maybe 6 to take a base.

When mission planners (names come to mind) get 30 players or so. Um... they waste resources so badly, it isn't even funny.  I can see a 'fun' mission, like chuwie's, where he warned the enemy before hand and made a mission with lancs flying under 1k. And carpet bombed a vbase, had 20+ sets of bombers.  That was fun, although it sort of was one-sided  .

Point being, I can fully disable a port as it is now with 1 p38. 2 1000lbs on VH/FH (if you hit it right) w/ rockets. Then 20mm all the guns and 50cal the radar.   Yet you see missions with 30+ guys, it's a waste. 1 set of lancs, b17s or b26s can destroy all 4 vehicle hangars at a V-base. Yet those somehow need 'nerfing' too?

It isn't 'the bases are too hard' it's players are TOO LAZY.  With the jpg that waffle posted a few days ago, it looks like the town is spread out and there are great placement of defensive guns.  That is good, it amazes me how players completely ignore mannable guns, then wonder why they died.

I can't wait to get back into the game. Looks like I'm going to have me a turkey shoot in the 88s.

[earl1937]

While reading the thread about the "work in process" base layout I came across this post about changing the settings for base capture.

Not to single out GHI as we know there are many others, Jokers, ET and more that PROMOTE these mega missions to take a base. It doesn't take all of them, but they ALWAYS bring them all to do it. And then they say its the ONLY way to take a base these days..... its too hard to take a base with less than 30 guys. A few friends (6 guys) and I took a base last night, and started in on a second one which we would have taken had we not let the troops run to soon (didn't have the cap in place well enough). It ended up as a horde take in the end because it was pretty much the only fight going on at the time, but the point is that a few organized player CAN take a base as they are set up now.

If you bring a horde it attracts attention and so you get more defense showing up. If you spread the force out and hit 3 bases at once the forces are smaller and so don't attract as much attention. Doing so spreads the fight out and so the defense. Its up to the players to fix this issue, not HTC to make it easier. If HTC made the changes suggested above the base capture per hour would would sky rocket as the hordes would roll two and three bases, one after the other, with out landing to rearm.  It would truly turn into a race to win the war.  

 As usual, you make some good points! But from someone with a different perspective on missions in general, the guys who fly with me enjoy the mission where or not we capture a base. Some times I have special audio effects, which I play on vox, other times, we do a dialog mission, where there is script in place with serveral players having speaking parts, example, A/C to navigator, give me a heading to the IP! Roger, Captain, fly heading 245, 32 miles! One of the things the guys really enjoy is the fighter groups have different call signs and the bombers call sign, just like they did in Rl. Sometimes I have commercial air traffic going in and out of military air bases, complete with radar vectors and so forth. We even did a mission one night where The Pam Am china clippers where involve, landing in a harbor with designated landing area, then requesting a tow to the dock.
Point being, if you want to go to the trouble, there is a lot of interesting things that you can put in a "mission", which enhances the experience for everybody, other than just bombing something.
The fighter jocks always seem to enjoy the radar vectors and when I see a boogie on radar, they hear, "Red1, fly heading 265, climb and maintain flight level 180, then come back with, Red1, fly heading 330, many boogies, altitude, aircraft unknown, your signal is "buster"

[Tinkles]

While reading the thread about the "work in process" base layout I came across this post about changing the settings for base capture.

Not to single out GHI as we know there are many others, Jokers, ET and more that PROMOTE these mega missions to take a base. It doesn't take all of them, but they ALWAYS bring them all to do it. And then they say its the ONLY way to take a base these days..... its too hard to take a base with less than 30 guys. A few friends (6 guys) and I took a base last night, and started in on a second one which we would have taken had we not let the troops run to soon (didn't have the cap in place well enough). It ended up as a horde take in the end because it was pretty much the only fight going on at the time, but the point is that a few organized player CAN take a base as they are set up now.

If you bring a horde it attracts attention and so you get more defense showing up. If you spread the force out and hit 3 bases at once the forces are smaller and so don't attract as much attention. Doing so spreads the fight out and so the defense. Its up to the players to fix this issue, not HTC to make it easier. If HTC made the changes suggested above the base capture per hour would would sky rocket as the hordes would roll two and three bases, one after the other, with out landing to rearm.  It would truly turn into a race to win the war.   

There is also no guarantee that the hordes will stop if bases are easier to capture anyways. If you 'neuter' the bases and make them easier, and the hordes still don't stop, then I don't see where that improves gameplay at all. In my opinion, it is easy to capture bases right now as it is. Just from a plane perspective, not including if you have ground support. If the people in your mission know what they are doing, then you can easily take a base with no problems. Me and two squaddies have taken a base before against 5 enemies. 1 set of bombers 1 fighter 1 c47 (or at times m3).

I think we should wait until the new terrain comes out with all it's goodies, and see if anything changes. However, ultimately, I don't think that it's the tools/targets that are to blame, but the player's and their playset.

Disclaimer: I am not telling players how to play.

The tools have a set purpose, it takes a player to find out how to utilize that tool in the way it was created, or use it in a unique way that gets the job done.  Some thing that only p38s and p51s are good for a base take, when 110s or even 410s are good for this task.  Many players choose the most reliable method of getting the job done. Some instead of going for score or perks focus on bases taken, and only think they are doing a good job if the enemy is losing bases.
So you can make the bases easier to take, but that doesn't mean that players aren't still going to use their reliable tools/methods. 

 

[Delirium]

I remember the days (AH1) when we had a very small town that 3 guys in a B26 (prior to the time we had formations) used to be able to drop the entire thing for a good.  During that time we still had hordes, so I don't think making it easier would do much of anything except accelerate the time it takes to take a field.

[bozon]

The number 1 reason that some bases are increadibly difficult to take is resupply. It is just too easy to resupply the town with M3s in some bases:
1. When the spawn point is very close to the town.
2. When the town is close to the airfield and planes cannot strafe GVs with out entering the field AAAs.
On top of that, M3 resupply is just too effective. One parcel is enough to make stuff in town pop-up instantly.

It used to be that a CAPed based and a flat town meant that the base was likely to be taken. Now, we need to CAP the base, hunt down 10 GVs that are crawling about, CAP the GV spawn points from the nearby bases (or go kill the VH there), and since this takes so long, we also have to do a bar-CAP against a stream of fighters from nearby bases. This requires a large manpower and hence a horde and I still see cases in which the town has been taken down several times under constant CAP till the base is finally taken, the attackers give up, or I my time is up and I have to logout.

Suggestions:
1. Require that resupplies are delivered all the way to the map room. Edge of town is not good enough.
2. Divide the resupply time between all buildings that are down. If an M3 parcel is worth 4 minutes and 1 building is down, it removes 4 minutes from its down time. If 10 buildings are down, it removes 4/10 minutes = 24 seconds from each. This way, the more building that are down, the harder it becomes to make one of them pop-up instantly.
3. Consider lowering the effectiveness of each resupply parcel.
4. Keep spawns at a sufficient distance from towns and bases.
5. (not directly relevant to the above) Make C47 resupply worth 3 M3s. They are used to resupply a captured base, HQ and cities and are much more vulnerable than M3s.

[Randy1]

As Earl posted there is more to missions than just taking the base.  A lot of volunteer team works plays out, often.  You get to know these people after a few missions. 

Note also your perspective seems to focus on small bases.  A medium base and large is one tough nut to crack.

Missions are really about people.  I don't think I can write it down any better than that.

[Arlo]

 As usual, you make some good points! But from someone with a different perspective on missions in general, the guys who fly with me enjoy the mission where or not we capture a base. Some times I have special audio effects, which I play on vox, other times, we do a dialog mission, where there is script in place with serveral players having speaking parts, example, A/C to navigator, give me a heading to the IP! Roger, Captain, fly heading 245, 32 miles! One of the things the guys really enjoy is the fighter groups have different call signs and the bombers call sign, just like they did in Rl. Sometimes I have commercial air traffic going in and out of military air bases, complete with radar vectors and so forth. We even did a mission one night where The Pam Am china clippers where involve, landing in a harbor with designated landing area, then requesting a tow to the dock.
Point being, if you want to go to the trouble, there is a lot of interesting things that you can put in a "mission", which enhances the experience for everybody, other than just bombing something.
The fighter jocks always seem to enjoy the radar vectors and when I see a boogie on radar, they hear, "Red1, fly heading 265, climb and maintain flight level 180, then come back with, Red1, fly heading 330, many boogies, altitude, aircraft unknown, your signal is "buster"

Your immersion is fun, Earl. 

[DREDIOCK]

quote - "Bases are too hard to take..whine snivel snivel whine"

The bases are fine. Resupply is fine.

If you alter either to make bases easier to take all you will end up with are hordes taking bases at record pace and blowing through maps some of us would like to see stay up for more then a few hours.

And it doesnt take a horde to take a base. Though that is the most common method of those with mediocre (at best) tactical skills. with the numbers of people I see used to take a single base you should be able to take 2-3 simultaneously if better tactics were used.

You dont need easier to capture bases. You need better tactics. Course that would require planning,timing and teamwork

[RotBaron]

Resupping towns is a source of Panthers 

For new players, at least when I was new, resupping towns and spoiling the hard work of the vultures was my way of yellowing their cereal's milk.

[waystin2]

While I agree with the pricinciples of play style, I think hordes are not resulting due to difficulty of capture.  Hordes exist simply because there is safety and shared success while in a large group.  Let the targets continue to flock together.  They are easier to find that way.

[Arlo]

While I agree with the pricinciples of play style, I think hordes are not resulting due to difficulty of capture.  Hordes exist simply because there is safety and shared success while in a large group.  Let the targets continue to flock together.  They are easier to find that way.

There've been 'mega-squads' since AW was made available on AOL.

[Copprhed]

There will always be whiners that complain and want things even easier than they are now. They wish to expend no effort, no intelligence and no teamwork to achieve their goal. They want everything handed to them, just the way mommy and daddy do.