Author Topic: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr  (Read 24017 times)

Offline Zerstorer

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2014, 01:33:24 PM »
:)

I'm pretty sure Dolby didn't tell Skyyr, "Hey dude, come to the DA with me so I can beat the brakes off you,  expose you as all hat and no cattle, film it, and post it on the BBS."  That's probably the only only scenario where you wouldn't pull an Ahhh Haaa and judge the entire film void because Skyyr wasn't properly informed of the circumstances. 

All of this "Skyyr has only been flying for _______ months you loosers!" is getting old too.  If he/you/you guys haven't been flying that long and don't know the lay of the land, you should probably do more flying and less typing. 

 :salute


I'm not following the logic of your first paragraph, but again I don't honestly care about the circumstances.  I'll let you all figure that stuff out.

As for the 2nd, here's a challenge for you.  Take all that skill and experience with AH ...all that ACM over to War Blunder for a month.  I'm sure you will do fine, Triton...but as fine as you do here in similar circumstances?  After a month I'm willing to bet you will still be doing pretty damn good!  But again, as good as you do here?   

By the end of the first month, you've worked through most of the low hanging fruit.*  Interface differences etc.  But flight model changes?  "Man, my vaunted B38 just doesn't fly quite right here?"  "You mean I have to manually trim?"  "My B38 flaps don't deploy at the same speeds nor does it turn / climb / dive the same!"  "What the heck is up with the clouds?"     What does X do this instead of Y like it does in AH, yada yada yada.  You get the picture.  Over time you will get it, until you are eventually as good as you are here!

Or, in my case, as bad....  :frown:

Not an excuse, simply a observation based on experience.   :) :salute




* Actually this is doubtful given the horror that is War Blunder...but work with me here....  ;)    
The Once and Former Fulcrum

In my experience, nothing is ever what it seems to be, but everything is exactly what it is.

Offline Triton28

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2014, 01:47:59 PM »
I'm not following the logic of your first paragraph, but again I don't honestly care about the circumstances.  I'll let you all figure that stuff out.

As for the 2nd, here's a challenge for you.  Take all that skill and experience with AH ...all that ACM over to War Blunder for a month.  I'm sure you will do fine, Triton...but as fine as you do here in similar circumstances?  After a month I'm willing to bet you will still be doing pretty damn good!  But again, as good as you do here?   

By the end of the first month, you've worked through most of the low hanging fruit.*  Interface differences etc.  But flight model changes?  "Man, my vaunted B38 just doesn't fly quite right here?"  "You mean I have to manually trim?"  "My B38 flaps don't deploy at the same speeds nor does it turn / climb / dive the same!"  "What the heck is up with the clouds?"     What does X do this instead of Y like it does in AH, yada yada yada.  You get the picture.  Over time you will get it, until you are eventually as good as you are here!

Or, in my case, as bad....  :frown:

Not an excuse, simply a observation based on experience.   :) :salute




* Actually this is doubtful given the horror that is War Blunder...but work with me here....  ;)    

Sure.  Makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is for all of that to happen and I still come to the War Thunder forum or their global in-game chat and tell everyone how good I am.  Unless I just want to look like a fool. 

It's not hard.  If you like to talk trash then you had better be good at what you're doing or prepared to take the consequences when people find out you're not.  There is a third option, but that involves following the path set forth by Midway.   
Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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Offline glzsqd

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2014, 01:54:48 PM »
Sure.  Makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is for all of that to happen and I still come to the War Thunder forum or their global in-game chat and tell everyone how good I am.  Unless I just want to look like a fool. 

It's not hard.  If you like to talk trash then you had better be good at what you're doing or prepared to take the consequences when people find out you're not.  There is a third option, but that involves following the path set forth by Midway.   

Who is / What happened to Midway? I only started playing in October of 2013.

Sorry if this is a derail
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2014, 01:55:14 PM »
I understand you are trying to put across that adapting is difficult, but the fundamentals of BFM and ACM are the same across all the games I have played.
In my experience there isn't too much of a difference between AH and those others out there. The difference in the way the individual aircraft handle can be overcome in a matter of hours.
Skyyr came from Fighter Ace, there are many FA refugees in AcesHigh, and all of them that had the reputation for being good carried it over to AcesHigh.
2 ARS guys spring to mind and one Brit.

These are the games I have collected in the WW2 combat flight sim genre;
AcesHigh
Wings of Prey
IL2 Sturmovik (1946)
IL2 CloD
War Thunder

If I get 100% out of myself in AH, I get 95% out of the others until I adapt within a few hours. Except the gunnery, I've always been poo on the guns  :cry
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #64 on: June 03, 2014, 02:00:16 PM »
Who is / What happened to Midway? I only started playing in October of 2013.

Sorry if this is a derail

He got axed for being a troll.  A pretty skillful troll, I might add.
Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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Offline Zerstorer

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #65 on: June 03, 2014, 02:06:06 PM »
Sure.  Makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is for all of that to happen and I still come to the War Thunder forum or their global in-game chat and tell everyone how good I am.  Unless I just want to look like a fool.  

It's not hard.  If you like to talk trash then you had better be good at what you're doing or prepared to take the consequences when people find out you're not.  There is a third option, but that involves following the path set forth by Midway.  

I don't think that is the question here.  If this is a witch hunt, then by all means let's call it that and move forward!

We can use this formula:





We need Skyyr to step on the scale....and can someone find a duck please!

« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 02:11:15 PM by Zerstorer »
The Once and Former Fulcrum

In my experience, nothing is ever what it seems to be, but everything is exactly what it is.

Offline Zerstorer

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #66 on: June 03, 2014, 02:09:50 PM »
I understand you are trying to put across that adapting is difficult, but the fundamentals of BFM and ACM are the same across all the games I have played.

....

Except the gunnery, I've always been poo on the guns  :cry

Agreed with BFM and ACM.  And yes I agree, you can pick the rest up but I disagree with the speed to get used to the changes...especially if you only fly two or three rides and want to transition to the new game, but we can agree to disagree.  :salute

Same here with the gunnery....AH gunnery is easily the hardest I've encountered for a WWII sim.
The Once and Former Fulcrum

In my experience, nothing is ever what it seems to be, but everything is exactly what it is.

Offline Triton28

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #67 on: June 03, 2014, 02:54:22 PM »
I don't think that is the question here.  If this is a witch hunt, then by all means let's call it that and move forward!

We can use this formula:

(Image removed from quote.)



We need Skyyr to step on the scale....and can someone find a duck please!



lol... don't strawman this.  Skyyr isn't being "hunted" because people don't like the cut of his jib.

How many people with Skyyr level of ability are flying in the MA these days?  Just from what I've seen of his flying I'd say many, many dozens.  Why aren't there similar threads about them?

 
Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #68 on: June 03, 2014, 03:53:52 PM »


If you only practice dueling then BnZ is not difficult but the reverse is not true.  



Now FLS, surely you realize it isn't quite as simple as that. "Saddling up" until the prey go down is by far the easiest way to kill a plane *if* one is flying a plane that actually CAN saddle up and turn with the prey until it goes down in the first place.

 If this were not the case then turny fighters slow fighters wouldn't be ever be used in the MA. Killing something you can't possibly turn with in your own plane necessarily involves better planning and far harder gun solutions at worse angle. For instance, in my direct experience, killing a Spit 1v1 is FAR easier in an Fm2 than a P-51.

In real world ACM aren't energy tactics generally considered to be more demanding of experience to pull off? One thinks of the trouble the maneuverable little Mig Frescos gave F4 pilots in Vietnam until they pilots were trained in methods to counter such turn demons.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 03:56:18 PM by BnZs »
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2014, 04:00:25 PM »
Now FLS, surely you realize it isn't quite as simple as that. "Saddling up" until the prey go down is by far the easiest way to kill a plane *if* one is flying a plane that actually CAN saddle up and turn with the prey until it goes down in the first place.

 If this were not the case then turny fighters slow fighters wouldn't be ever be used in the MA. Killing something you can't possibly turn with in your own plane necessarily involves better planning and far harder gun solutions at worse angle. For instance, in my direct experience, killing a Spit 1v1 is FAR easier in an Fm2 than a P-51.

In real world ACM aren't energy tactics generally considered to be more demanding of experience to pull off? One thinks of the trouble the maneuverable little Mig Frescos gave F4 pilots in Vietnam until they pilots were trained in methods to counter such turn demons.

I'm with you on this. It took me years how to figure out the prudent way to use the vertical with the g14 - planning is exactly what it takes, and, in order to be able to make an effective plan, you need a feel for the quickest way to get the bird vertical and rolled to the right orientation.

I believe that is also why we call Mr. Spitty "easy mode".
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2014, 04:03:42 PM »
As for this thread, I'll tell you why by demonstration.
.. as if nobody sees the damn elephant on the couch.
<ahem>

"Hey guys. I spawn-camped and got 104 kills of THE EMMAKNEE last night. I am KING TURD, BEHOLD MY FECAL MAJESTY and WORSHIP MY *GODLIKE* SKILL LEVEL :banana: :banana: :banana:"


Otherwise, I find the whole thing pretty humorous.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Dragon Tamer

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2014, 04:14:48 PM »
As for this thread, I'll tell you why by demonstration.
.. as if nobody sees the damn elephant on the couch.
<ahem>

"Hey guys. I spawn-camped and got 104 kills of THE EMMAKNEE last night. I am KING TURD, BEHOLD MY FECAL MAJESTY and WORSHIP MY *GODLIKE* SKILL LEVEL :banana: :banana: :banana:"


Otherwise, I find the whole thing pretty humorous.

Yes, bartender! I'll have what he's drinking.

I don't know what thread you are reading but what I see is a clash of egos. The ego attached to the more skilled pilot won.

Offline Kruel

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2014, 04:21:34 PM »
Fundamentals of ACM and BFM are the same, as you stated. But I think you are missing the point.

It’s like saying you use ACM/BFM in AH in the same manner as using ACM/BFM in AH Underwater or in AH Space Combat, the physics aren’t the same therefore your MANEUVERING within the limits of physics is not the same (Example: the Energy Egg). Scissors in Air Combat MANUEVERING is completely dependent on physics, you are full of yourself if you think you are going to undo thousands of hours of muscle memory and decision making with the AH physics domain in a few hours after going to another game.

To us it feels like we are flying underwater in this game.

I do not doubt the kills you had were on Skyyr nor do I doubt that the premise of the first few duels (2-3?) were duels. The other 6 duels, especially when he is flying a 109F or E I forget which it was. We never..ever… fly those, unless we are…messing around or training or testing something. I think you took these out of context to try and make yourself feel better? Or prove something to someone else? accentuate the score? You made them public(not that anybody begged you to keep them private) because you think it was going to make us back off?

But the facts are these:


-   2/3s of the duels are probably out of context, jukd t like you quoted me out of context a the end of the vides to his K/D, the post actually said 2-1 KD against the entire AoM squad. You posted it like I said 2/1 KD in general. You should be a politician you spin so good.

-   Again considering these films are probably 2 months+ old (Please do correct me if I am wrong as this would make a major premise of my argument invalid and I will GLADLY shut up). It means we were in the very infancy of learning the nuances of the physics of the game.

-   You took the opportunity of finding 2 month old film and put them in the context of the recent debate(DeBrody’s post, last week) we are having in the present. Again, trying to validate yourself vs someone who is playing your game differently and obviously making an impact (negative or positive) on people. The worst part is that this person has been playing your game for a fraction of the time you have been playing it. I get it, it would frustrate me too.

There is no point in having Skyyr reply, people here seem not to follow objective logic and would demonize him anyway.

 If you are talking about ARS Nish (awesome guy), and Bruv, they know who Shadow/Skyyr was in FA, Bruv might not admit it because he thought himself as better than Shadow/Skyyr (the 3 of us were all in The Damned in FA). No one could deny that Shadow was legend in FA, if they do it’s because they hated him for it.  Just as they are beginning to hate him here for starting to establish himself and our squad.

Yep, he is a cocky son-of-a-@#$%h, old habits die hard or not at all in his case, lol. But being confident is part of being an iAce (just as many people are confident here).

I'll set up the account when I get home tonight I'm sending this from my phone.and on a side note I did take a look at your videos on YouTube and I loved the Emil fight in the theme of Kill Bill it was good camera work

Edit: I just realized that I did incorrectly, clump you in with AoM, in my thread on Debrody's post, my apologies lol. So it was 1.9 KD vs the AOM squad I underlined it so you can quote me correctly on your next video :)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 04:49:10 PM by Kruel »

Offline Zerstorer

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #73 on: June 03, 2014, 04:38:09 PM »
lol... don't strawman this.  Skyyr isn't being "hunted" because people don't like the cut of his jib.

How many people with Skyyr level of ability are flying in the MA these days?  Just from what I've seen of his flying I'd say many, many dozens.  Why aren't there similar threads about them?

 


Strawman? Not at all! And there have been many witch threads over the years... Too many to count! Some deserved, others maybe not. So why all the fuss? If you or others have an issue take it to the DA or be done with it and zip it. So far in the past few days I've received PMs from some individuals about this subject. One called me a "scumbag" for defending someone they felt was 'of the worse kind“, yet that person hasn't played the game in six months and has never engaged or even met him! Wow... Paging Captain Prejudgement! It's not required.. Take it to the DA or don't and drop it.
The Once and Former Fulcrum

In my experience, nothing is ever what it seems to be, but everything is exactly what it is.

Offline LCADolby

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Re: Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr
« Reply #74 on: June 03, 2014, 04:57:53 PM »
 I have always said that AcesHigh feel like flying through soup, (almost like saying underwater). But that has always made AcesHigh very much easier for me over the others, less adjustments and more "feel".

Kruel, also, wasn't it you that added me to the AoM squad list to "fix" a 2:1 K/D.
In that list I show twice, were you not implying a 2:1 K/D, was my quote of a 2:1K/D inaccurate, please explain.
With that in mind, it was you cooking the books as it were.

Fights are from the 25th April 2014. If you believe that a Duel now today would change the results I'm ready for more fights, it's why I fly AcesHigh.

(Kill Emil was a lot of fun to make. The other pilot was a great opponent and one of the wisest sticks around, helping very much with the action. I wish I could go back and remake it, as I have learned a lot since about filming and editing.)
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