Cargnico/Dolby Vs Skyyr

[The Fugitive]

This thread got started because the OP wants to use someone else, along with some truth fudging, to make a name for himself.    

He "made a name for himself" long before you or your buddy even thought of playing here. He is a very skilled player of this game unlike a few others in this thread.    But hey keep at it you might convince someone other than your self you have it right.       

[Vraciu]

He "made a name for himself" long before you or your buddy even thought of playing here. He is a very skilled player of this game unlike a few others in this thread.    But hey keep at it you might convince someone other than your self you have it right.      

He made a name for himself all right.   Was mocked and ridiculed repeatedly on country and on 200 to the point he PMed me to ask why.  At the time I gave him the benefit of the doubt and tried to reassure him.  He even started a thread over it.   Boy was I a poor judge of things at the time...


I have it right.  I also note that you sh-t on every thread you are in.    (People don't like you much better than him, tbqh.)


Too bad this post will get squelched.  The truth needs to come out. 

[PJ_Godzilla]

If your point is to denigrate the guy (Skyyr) you are attacking the wrong person.  He has a ton of knowledge that he offers willingly to anyone who asks, spending as much time, and with as much patience necessary, to insure it is learned.  Others on here post out of context videos to "prove" their manhood for self-aggrandizement.  See the OP for Exhibit A.

Dolby was about to get caught in a lie.  He has made an effort to get ahead of it.  The groupie cheerleading squad is attempting to diffuse it through volume over substance.

No. My point is that, if the statement is true ( he no longer accepts da challenges) then it is a loss to both him and us. I have heard corroboration to your story regarding his helpfulness. I've read, and made use of, at east one of his posts regarding the merge. If the statement regarding da challenges isn't true, either have Skyyr refute it or speak for him now.

As for your second para, please, no more beating around the bush. Explain. Enlighten me. What was the lie to which you allude? Enough of this smokescreen. Just give me some truth. You can pm it if you don't want to state it here.

[Vraciu]

No. My point is that, if the statement is true ( he no longer accepts da challenges) then it is a loss to both him and us. I have heard corroboration to your story regarding his helpfulness. I've read, and made use of, at east one of his posts regarding the merge. If the statement regarding da challenges isn't true, either have Skyyr refute it or speak for him now.

As for your second para, please, no more beating around the bush. Explain. Enlighten me. What was the lie to which you allude? Enough of this smokescreen. Just give me some truth.

I see.  Got ya.  My mistake.     

I will PM it because it will get Rule 4'ed--again.

[BnZs]

Actually I am positive it is that simple.  Either you can win a fair fight against the same aircraft or you can't.  Picking the low hanging fruit is also a skill but it won't help you in a fair fight.

Picking unaware bandits at opportunity is clearly not what I was talking about. You deleted the part of my post which would made that quite clear when you quoted me. I am speaking about learning to use energy tactics to kill more maneuverable fighters, which I think is generally quite a bit more difficult than applying angles tactics in aircraft which can match or exceed the maneuvering ability of the bandit.

For example, encountering your typical Spit, N1K, or Corsair pilot 1v1 in the Fm2, it almost feels like I can put my brain in idle and still kill them easily most of the time. In the P-51D, against the same average quality of pilot, it is much, much more complicated, much harder to get a lethal shot in. As a further example, engaging a Brew or Zeke in my Fm2 is always a hairy proposition, one in which I cannot guarantee victory if the opponent manages their throttle and geometry well. Moreover, against my P-51D *most* 190-D9s, which are significantly superior in engine power but significantly inferior in turn, seem to end up dying or bugging. You get my point. I've been doing this since 2006, and experience has convinced me that when two fighter planes go at it, it takes less pilot skill to win in the one that turns better, the "angles fighter", than in the "energy fighter". Especially if said "energy fighter" isn't superior in climb/acceleration performance, but only has a top speed advantage to work with. So I don't quite understand what people mean when they say BNZ/energy fighting is "easy".

[ink]

Picking unaware bandits at opportunity is clearly not what I was talking about. You deleted the part of my post which would made that quite clear when you quoted me. I am speaking about learning to use energy tactics to kill more maneuverable fighters, which I think is generally quite a bit more difficult than applying angles tactics in aircraft which can match or exceed the maneuvering ability of the bandit.

For example, encountering your typical Spit, N1K, or Corsair pilot 1v1 in the Fm2, it almost feels like I can put my brain in idle and still kill them most of the time. In the P-51D, against the same average quality of pilot, it is much, much more complicated, much harder to get a lethal shot in. As a further example, engaging a Brew or Zeke in my Fm2 is always a hairy proposition, one in which I cannot guarantee victory if the opponent manages their throttle and geometry well. Moreover, against my P-51D *most* 190-D9s, which are significantly superior in engine power but significantly inferior in turn, seem to end up dying or bugging. You get my point. I've been doing this since 2006, and experience has convinced me that when two fighter planes go at it, it takes less pilot skill to win in the one that turns better, the "angles fighter", than in the "energy fighter". Especially if said "energy fighter" isn't superior in climb/acceleration performance, but only has a top speed advantage to work with. So I don't quite understand what people mean when they say BNZ/energy fighting is "easy".

it is easy because you do not have to worry about getting slow for other cons coming in to pick....you need AIM a fast plane and some SA....

 I do agree that it is harder in a 1vs1 for the BnZer against a good turner....

but in the MA...the TnB plane will have the harder time surviving just due to the gang mentality...most TnBers are not fast so they need to fight their way out...

you need AIM...SA....timing....ability to judge the nme's E state....knowledge of ACM and BFM....

while a BnZer can just nose down and run at the first sign he is getting into trouble.

[Kruel]

Forget Damned; The Deluded

Dolby, I PMed you the user/pass for the gmail account to upload the films. Once they are uploaded you can make them public and link folks directly to them so they can download em if they so wish.

Vraciu is not far from the truth although it can be expanded upon a little bit.

Once again the Facts:

- We killed you in the MA a few times, probably under "unfair" terms which is the way we like it!   I remember that night because I *think* you had recently changed your name to Cargnico from Dolby, and we were wondering who you were because you were flying skillfully.

- On April 25th (which you admitted to in this thread), I believe the same day as the previous fact (not quite 2 months, but about a month and a half ago) You challenged/invited Skyyr to DA to fight Dora Vs Dora (at the time we had been playing for ~4 months), We to this day are still working merges/judging energy states/torque rolls   ect ect, week by week progress is exponential for us, but I digress. )

- I would say the first 2-3 duels were legit, but the terms/context in which they were had were not the same in the terms as they exist today. By which I mean that before DeBrody's post the animosity level between the involved parties wasn't nearly as high as it is now, in the present, when you posted the film in question. You beat him a few times in the Dora, then proposed to "show" him how the energy tactics in AH in a plane he never flies (109 E or F, I can't recall but its one of those). The important point here is: Skyyr didn't perceive you as an enemy, nor did you perceive him as an enemy. This was more Competitive Curiosity turned "Training". I will bet my last penny that had the circumstances been the same as they were today, you wouldn't be saying it was 0-9, Maybe 0-3 for the Doral duels, it wouldn't have been a deck merge duel(more like 3-5k) and he wouldn't have had done those types of horizontal turns. This is where we have the issue.

- I mistakenly group you with the AoM squad on Debrody's post to prove a point about how Skyyr nearly has twice as many kills on them than they do on him. (removing you from that equation doesn't really change the validity of my statement). In retaliation? For that you post you beat Skyyr 0-9, blatantly and conveniently leaving out the fact that the duels were done nearly 2 months ago, and the context in which the duels took place. Why did you post them to the general public? To show everyone how you beat him, since they don't know the circumstances in which manner you did, to them it becomes the truth, when in reality its not how it went down at all.

Should it be made known to all pilots who would accept training from you to be made aware that you might one day in the distant future use the material from that training to try to discredit them in the future?

I disagree with Vraciu, you already made a name for yourself, everyone knows you are a good pilot. But you dug deep in the bag of half truths and put them together in order to try and place yourself in an even better light with those who would respect you as a pilot. I will always give someone props when deserved, no matter how much I disagree or dislike them, this is not one of those times.

Deluded? Name one point above that is a blatant lie, or half truth as your initiation of this thread was without giving the full story.

I will await the films as you said you would send them. If there is anything else to bring to light (be it if it helps my argument or disproves it) I will report it here.

[Dragon Tamer]

it is easy because you do not have to worry about getting slow for other cons coming in to pick....you need AIM a fast plane and some SA....

Unless you are in a 7 ton dump truck, which never seems to hold any of it's E on the pull out.

[BnZs]

it is easy because you do not have to worry about getting slow for other cons coming in to pick....you need AIM a fast plane and some SA....

Spoken as if these last two are not skills that take much time and effort to acquire...

you need AIM...SA....timing....ability to judge the nme's E state....knowledge of ACM and BFM....

I know for a fact that you can make do with less in the way of aim if your plane possesses the ability to "saddle up" for a tracking shot...Zazen (remember him?) once pointed out that gunnery skills were a primary requirement for success in an energy fighter, and that frustration at lack thereof had driven many to stay in turnier fighters.

As for the timing, judgement, knowledge of maneuvers, all of that and more is required if you expect to kill even an average Spit pilot in a P-51 or 190. Whereas winning in the Fm2 or other superior turn fighter quite frankly often seems to take little more than pulling on the pole and managing the throttle.

while a BnZer can just nose down and run at the first sign he is getting into trouble.

In an arena full of high P-51s, 190s, Las etc, this is often NOT the case, and there are always turny planes scavenging what the fast planes run down. Often the best thing a really fast plane can hope for from running is to get the pack down to only one or two fast planes before one has to begin defensive maneuvering. Moreover, this is not real fighting, a situation in which one's top priority is to never die, not even once, thereby making speed king. We can "die" many times in this game and come back for vengeance...we are more concerned with killing than not dying. Therefore, turning ability and the accompanying ease in killing is at least as desirable in this game as the speed to bug out.

[FLS]

BnZs you are changing the subject and misquoting me and your apparent point is irrelevant to dueling the same aircraft in a fair fight. When you want to compare two pilots ability to dogfight you limit the variables. If the result is 5 - 4 that tells you something. When the result is 9 - 0 that tells you something else.

[Vraciu]

BnZs you are changing the subject and misquoting me and your apparent point is irrelevant to dueling the same aircraft in a fair fight. When you want to compare two pilots ability to dogfight you limit the variables. If the result is 5 - 4 that tells you something. When the result is 9 - 0 that tells you something else.

It tells you something within context, sir.

[BnZs]

Well yes, what I'm  I'm discussing is indeed tangential to this thread. I was merely questioning this:

If you only practice dueling then BnZ is not difficult but the reverse is not true.  

Which I do not find to be true. It believe it eminently possible to be good at the formal matched plane duel but have trouble in dissimilar plane energy fighting or multiple bandit situations, as well as vis versa. For example, early on in my career I joined a good squad, the now defunct ~Air Raiders, and we scrimmaged constantly in the DA. It didn't take much of that practice before I found I would usually win a "fair" similar plane fight against the average pilot encountered one-on-one in the MA. But my dueling skills weren't nearly as useful in other situations, such as many-on-many fights, the sort quick defensive ACM against sudden attack you need in the MA, or most especially when it came to killing more maneuverable fighters with energy tactics. The venerable Zazen also wrote something on that subject once, mentioning a pilot he knew who was brilliant at 1v1 ACM but had real trouble being even average in the chaotic MA, and thus was extremely frustrated. I was something like that pilot Zazen spoke of at this stage of my career, and it was indeed frustrating to get killed when I knew I could have trounced all or most of the bandits in a "fair fight". I think such frustration is behind a lot of the hostility that gets traded on these boards.  On a historical note I am reminded of how, IIRC, the best Japanese pilots of WWII were probably without peer in a 1v1 dogfight because that is what there training emphasized. However, they eventually suffered terrible attrition because the American fighter pilots learned to hit and run against the more maneuverable Japanese fighters, and work as a team.

[RotBaron]

This thread is a most curious thing.

Obviously he's aware of it, but doesn't comment.

Thingies that make u go hmmmmm.

[FLS]

BnZs I'm fine with you disagreeing with my opinion however I see nothing in your response that addresses my opinion other than the statement that you disagree.

[LCADolby]

You know what Kruel, after reading your "facts", I take exception the insinuation that training with me will lead to humiliation in public. So, you can have Skyyr put his films on that account of yours. If you want to bring anything to light other than your bs, the ball is in his court.

It wasn't strictly just training (as proved by the banter leading up to it) or just Dora's to begin with. I always allow my called out opponent to pick the first aircraft, along with downed man picks next. And as I always have, requested the deck merge guns cold first merge. Something everyone knows that has accepted a call out from me. We ended up in 109s on his request also.

As far as I am concerned they are all legit, the fact I call it the 109s a training of sorts is because I was giving out hints, and he doesn't usually tool around the MA in a 109; I'm extending a courtesy by calling it such.
When I give out tips and hints to someone to beat me/fight better, wouldn't it defeat the point if they suddenly decided not to try and fly for the kill.
I try out different things all the time in duels, what of it? Should I tell the people I have duelled that their victory over me doesn't count because I was trying something different, no of course not, so don't press such a bloody stupid point.
It could be said that in my eyes, I never felt that he was ever trying to kill me with his Dora flying anyway, which is why I started giving away a few hints and telling him of pilots to go for training from.

It became public because of yourself and the cheer leader, I made a training aid, 2 birds 1 film.

If you think a rematch is in order, I accept.
If the result should change, so be it.
I've seen his youtube, should he win, I know it will be on there.