Two Scenarios and a Short Quiz

[Zerstorer]

So consider the following two scenarios:

1. Sitting off a base on a 3-5K perch in a P47, P51 or Dora waiting on uppers to take off and killing them as they do so, low on E and unable to fight back. As more planes take off the attacker zoom climbs back to his perch to maintain separation and E superiority over the enemy (call this 'cherry picking').

2. Setting off a base on a 3-5K perch in a 109K or Ki84 watching as uppers lift off and attempt to climb to engage. The attacker kills each in turn as they close, starved of E and helpless. As more planes take off the attacker uses the superior climbing characteristics of his/her plane to maintain separation and E superiority over the enemy (call this 'roping').

Based off these two scenarios, please answer the following questions:

1.) Which is the more effective killing technique? Please explain your reasoning.

2.) Which technique is more fair to the base defenders i. e. Given both attackers start with an advantage, which technique provides the defenders a better chance of neutralizing the advantage.

3.) Which technique provides the attacker the best opportunity to extend and escape as the attackers advantages dwindle (assume the attacker would want to do so).

4.) Which technique requires greater skill of the attacker to maintain his/her advantage? Please explain your reasoning.

5.) Which technique is more 'honorable' to employ and why?

6.) Similar to question 2, but putting yourself in the shoes of the base defenders, which technique will be perceived by the defender as being more fair?

Thanks... I look forward to everyone's answers!

(my thanks to Dolby for pointing out scenario #1 is better described as "cherry picking" rather than vulching as originally noted  )

[BuckShot]

Fair? No such thing.

Whatever is most effective for killing/ defending is the best.

[Lusche]

I'd like to phone a friend 

[morfiend]

I'd like to phone a friend 

  Sorry Lusche I dont have an answer for you!    If in doubt just say 42!



   

[Lusche]

My answer is 42! 

[Zerstorer]

My answer is 42! 

While this is the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything.... I don't beleive it applicable in this case. 

Besides, we would have to build a bigger computer to understand the question!

[Dragon Tamer]

The answer is MATH!

M=13
A=1
T=20
H=8

13+1+20+8=42

[Zerstorer]

The answer is MATH!

M=13
A=1
T=20
H=8

13+1+20+8=42

 

[morfiend]

While this is the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything....

 As you stated,42 is the answer to everything!   If you want conformation just ask the nearest dolphin!


    

[LilMak]

Well people are going to jump into this thread and tell you there is no honor in the MA. That, however, is not true for everyone. Neither of the tactics you've described is unfair or dishonorable.

What you describe as a "cherry pick" doesn't fit my definition. A cherry pick, in my opinion, is when you pick an already engaged aircraft who is essentially defenseless against your attack. If its just you and the other guy, then it can never be a pick because he knows or should know you're there. Especially in the example you give where the enemy is essentially lifting off the base to attack the agressor. The only dishonorable move (again in my opinion) in the first example would be to kill the guy while he's still on the runway and essentially defenseless. Once he's up and cleared the base boundaries, he's fair game.

There's only one person responsible for ever being roped and that's the guy who blew all his speed trying to zoom up to the enemy. Following the enemy up like that is, at best, a calculated risk. You're betting you can get to him before he can turn the tables on you and vaporize you before you can recover. Best practice in the example given is to let him be the agressor until you can work down his E to a point where the tables are a little more even.

Most of the time, when I'm the Jug in the scenerio you describe, the first plane to lift off and defend the feild is either an LA-7, or a Spit16. Either of these planes, flown by a sligtly below average stick, has the ability to equalize E with me within 60 seconds of my first pass. So, as a Jug pilot, I know they better be dead within that first minute or the Calvary is going to start launching off that base in droves before I can recover my energy. While the Jug is a pretty fast plane, it doesn't have the get away ability of the 51, 109k, or 190d because of its lack of acceleration and/or sustained climb rate. If they aren't dead in that first minute, I can sustain the fight to longer duration but I will have depleted and E advanage I may have had and now have to consider exit strategies as the enemy is likely launching off the base like a bunch of fire ants who just had their hive kicked over. Also the enemy has the advanage of unlimited lives. No matter how many I kill there's infinite numbers of aircraft which can lift. I will generally stay in this fight until one of three things happens. 1. fuel/ammo depleted 2. Damage sustained to my aircraft impedes my ability to fight. 3. So many ants come out of the hive that I need to fall back to a position where I can fight them off.

Anymore, what really happens when I approach a quiet base looking for a fight, no one on the other team sees my lone con as much of a threat and doesn't bother to launch an airplane. Usually I orbit the base waiting for the ants while some guy spends 10 minutes shooting at me in an 88.

[Zerstorer]

Well people are going to jump into this thread and tell you there is no honor in the MA. That, however, is not true for everyone. Neither of the tactics you've described is unfair or dishonorable.

What you describe as a "cherry pick" doesn't fit my definition. A cherry pick, in my opinion, is when you pick an already engaged aircraft who is essentially defenseless against your attack. If its just you and the other guy, then it can never be a pick because he knows or should know you're there. Especially in the example you give where the enemy is essentially lifting off the base to attack the agressor. The only dishonorable move (again in my opinion) in the first example would be to kill the guy while he's still on the runway and essentially defenseless. Once he's up and cleared the base boundaries, he's fair game.

There's only one person responsible for ever being roped and that's the guy who blew all his speed trying to zoom up to the enemy. Following the enemy up like that is, at best, a calculated risk. You're betting you can get to him before he can turn the tables on you and vaporize you before you can recover. Best practice in the example given is to let him be the agressor until you can work down his E to a point where the tables are a little more even.

Most of the time, when I'm the Jug in the scenerio you describe, the first plane to lift off and defend the feild is either an LA-7, or a Spit16. Either of these planes, flown by a sligtly below average stick, has the ability to equalize E with me within 60 seconds of my first pass. So, as a Jug pilot, I know they better be dead within that first minute or the Calvary is going to start launching off that base in droves before I can recover my energy. While the Jug is a pretty fast plane, it doesn't have the get away ability of the 51, 109k, or 190d because of its lack of acceleration and/or sustained climb rate. If they aren't dead in that first minute, I can sustain the fight to longer duration but I will have depleted and E advanage I may have had and now have to consider exit strategies as the enemy is likely launching off the base like a bunch of fire ants who just had their hive kicked over. Also the enemy has the advanage of unlimited lives. No matter how many I kill there's infinite numbers of aircraft which can lift. I will generally stay in this fight until one of three things happens. 1. fuel/ammo depleted 2. Damage sustained to my aircraft impedes my ability to fight. 3. So many ants come out of the hive that I need to fall back to a position where I can fight them off.

Anymore, what really happens when I approach a quiet base looking for a fight, no one on the other team sees my lone con as much of a threat and doesn't bother to launch an airplane. Usually I orbit the base waiting for the ants while some guy spends 10 minutes shooting at me in an 88.

Thanks man!   

[Triton28]

That's a long quiz for someone who doesn't give a damn.   

[Zerstorer]

That's a long quiz for someone who doesn't give a damn.   

I dont give a damn if it's long! 

[The Fugitive]

This first scenario I'd call a Vulch more than anything. If your coming in on a player that hasn't enough speed or room to maneuver then it's a vulch. Sitting on a perch killing dingbats to stupid to get some all and speed before engaging isn't a rope, it's killing dingbats.

In neither case would I call them fights. They would just lame ways to rack up easy kills. Kinda like spawn camping. Yes everyone does it, but it still isn't a fight.

[pembquist]

Some people like to play with a tight fist on their advantages and value a kill streak and landing some people don't particularly care and enjoy engagement and risk more. Then there is everything in between and outside. Since there are no rules on how you play there is no such thing as objective fairness, it's entirely subjective without strong consensus.

LilMak's description is an excellent one of the challenges and play from his point of view, these are objective challenges and require an objective level of skill to pull off. After all what is he supposed to do? Fly to an enemy base and hover off the field at 100 feet and half throttle?

On the other hand, aside from the frustration that comes from being killed repeatedly, it can seem to someone taking off at the enemy base that the bnzr is engaged in some selfish little project akin to stealing candy from a baby and is therefore at a minimum cold and perhaps more extravagantly, a tad antisocial. Objectively speaking the enemy needs you to play else it is tumbleweed time so what is he doing inflicting his brand of dullsville misery on you as if you weren't 50 percent of a living gameplay phenomena.

I don't know if you have ever had the misfortune to play softball in a game between an "office drinking lets have fun coed" team and a "we will DOMINATE, fraternity " team but its kinda like that.

I am always disappointed, for instance, when somebody sprays at me from the front because I am thinking "don't they know me, I can barely get an AFK kill, don't they want to turn and mix it up and let me have some fun?" This of course is ridiculous on my part but I believe we are talking about emotions here and not logic. After all has anybody ever felt better about getting dumped by their girlfriend because somebody told them "look...objectively your better off without her."