Scoring

[Skyyr]

And without any social constructs, chaos (or dweeby cartoon flying) reigns.

Chaos still reigns in the face of social constructs. I present to you, a second time, the example that murder still happens regardless of the fact that there are numerous social constructs against it.

I would respectfully suggest that you take a few courses in cultural studies and argumentative reasoning - it might help explain the above better to you.

[Lusche]

What the changes would not do is change the standing of good or even great pilots. Pilots who are consistently good could fly, no longer fearing a freak-chance death from a .50-cal pilot wound at 1200 yards. Deaths and misses are not primary concerns, because they are weighted out in the long run. It would encourage people to engage and fight more, instead of running the second it looks like the tables might turn and the fight could end up with a single death that would wreck that player's monthly stats.

This is nothing how the scoring system in the LW works. No single death "wrecks" a players montlhy stats and, more importantly rank. Things are weigthed out in LW arena by kill points.

Look at the top 10 ranked fighter pilots of last tour

   sorties   hours   death total
TonyJoey   178   85   37
Snailman   150   42   20
angus   61   15   3
rocky     147   57   53
paladin3   117   48   20
okie           50   15   19
cmex           241   61   112
cargnico   239   62   124
lynx            36   11   13
grizz         68   16   44

See how many deaths each of them had. No one seems to have his stats ruined by just a single death.

However, due to score adjusting for imbalanced sides, it's realistically possible for the 40-kill player to gain more kill points, especially based on the aircraft that they fly. In fact, for example, someone furballing in early/mid-war Spitfires can use this to game the system.

Score doesn't work this way either.

[Triton28]

Chaos still reigns in the face of social constructs. I present to you, a second time, the example that murder still happens regardless of the fact that there are numerous social constructs against it.

I would respectfully suggest that you take a few courses in cultural studies and argumentative reasoning - it might help explain the above better to you.

Oh I see your point now.  Social constructs, accepted norms, and mores have never influenced anyone, ever.  

You'd do better to just not give a damn I think.  

 

[BnZs]

And without any social constructs, chaos (or dweeby cartoon flying) reigns.

Actually there are elements of natural order that appear, not due to imposed order, but due to the "laws" of such things as physics and psychology. Patterns emerge, and rational beings who wish to be effective observe and use these patterns as best they can towards their own ends. Arguably a mostly natural order tends to be superior to an order bogged down with excessive artificial impositions. In any case, you will remember I actually proposed an imposed order consisting of the sort of rules many players act like should be followed, but every player who bothered to speak on it was against it. So what's a guy to do? *shrug* http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362889.0.html

[Skyyr]

Oh I see your point now.  Social constructs, accepted norms, and mores have never influenced anyone, ever.  

I don't recall saying that. In fact, I just re-read my posts and confirmed that I did not say anywhere that social constructs "never influenced anyone, ever". What I said was is that the existence of social norms is simply that - an existence. The existence of them does not negate or otherwise remove contrary behavior. Ergo, they are nothing more than one group of people trying to enforce their ideals on others. Citation and link.

Again, I would suggest the aforementioned courses, specifically argumentative reasoning - it would help you understand why your statement is (quite literally) logically flawed and might help you better vocalize your reasonings against it (though they would still remain in contradiction, as pointed out).

You'd do better to just not give a damn I think.  

Pointing out logically-flawed arguments is not an indicator of giving a damn. Rather, it's reinforcing why I don't give a damn: because they're logically flawed.

[Skyyr]

This is nothing how the scoring system in the LW works. No single death "wrecks" a players montlhy stats and, more importantly rank. Things are weigthed out in LW arena by kill points.

I'm not implying that a single death literally wrecks every score; but rather, it encourages timid flying by those who wish to game the system and creates a fear of death, especially by those who are trying to "game the game" through low-sortie counts.

Moving to a weighted system removes the practicality of doing so, negating the effectiveness of low-sortie-count stat padders.

[Kruel]

negating the effectiveness of low-sortie-count stat padders.

That's me!

[hitech]

Let's look at an example: Someone can come in from the top of a massive amount of inbound enemies, kill 10 planes in under 10 minutes, and then RTB. Or, even better, let's say 10 bombers. Adding in an additional 10 minutes of travel each way for ingress and egress, that brings the total sortie time to 30 minutes. Now let's look at the stats.

Do you really think an average player could achieve this?

How many people do you think that play can achieve 10 kills in 10 mins?

HiTech

[Latrobe]

This is nothing how the scoring system in the LW works. No single death "wrecks" a players montlhy stats and, more importantly rank. Things are weigthed out in LW arena by kill points.

Look at the top 10 ranked fighter pilots of last tour

   sorties   hours   death total
TonyJoey   178   85   37
Snailman   150   42   20
angus   61   15   3
rocky     147   57   53
paladin3   117   48   20
okie           50   15   19
cmex           241   61   112
cargnico   239   62   124
lynx            36   11   13
grizz         68   16   44

See how many deaths each of them had. No one seems to have his stats ruined by just a single death.



Score doesn't work this way either.

An even better example is my fighter score so far this tour. I'm intentionally dying every single sortie this tour and so far my fighter rank is in the top 50!.   

[Triton28]

I don't recall saying that. In fact, I just re-read my posts and confirmed that I did not say anywhere that social constructs "never influenced anyone, ever". What I said was is that the existence of social norms is simply that - an existence. The existence of them does not negate or otherwise remove contrary behavior. Ergo, they are nothing more than one group of people trying to enforce their ideals on others. Citation and link.

You said "Chaos reigns in the face of social constructs".  So for chaos to reign, isn't it fair to say that social constructs aren't influential at all in the world of Skyyr?  

Again, I would suggest the aforementioned courses, specifically argumentative reasoning - it would help you understand why your statement is (quite literally) logically flawed and might help you better vocalize your reasonings against it (though they would still remain in contradiction, as pointed out).

Pointing out logically-flawed arguments is not an indicator of giving a damn. Rather, it's reinforcing why I don't give a damn: because they're logically flawed.

Splendid.  I'm always looking for course recommendations from random dudes on the internet.  

[hitech]

Triton,skyyr bnz Take you social construct discussion else where.

HiTEch

[Lusche]

I'm not implying that a single death literally wrecks every score; but rather, it encourages timid flying by those who wish to game the system and creates a fear of death, especially by those who are trying to "game the game" through low-sortie counts.

As a matter of fact, only few players do deliberately try to use the "low sortie count" method to boost the score. And often their returns are not exactly impressive as well. I have posted stats and analyses on this at several points in the past.
You absolutely can do use this method to good effect, but the leveling power of kill points means you really have to do some very impressive sorties - which no Average Joe can pull off.


At the current score system, any "timid flying" (which is a very unclear term anyway) is mostly for psychological reasons than any actual gain on score and rank.

[Kruel]

Do you really think an average player could achieve this?

How many people do you think that play can achieve 10 kills in 10 mins?

HiTech

I just did it this tour in attack rank, let's not even say they were kills, I vulched a field and Overkill kept rolling bombers. I probably got 15 kills on 2 sorties.

Which is exactly our point, is the ranking system not supposed to be a way to measure player skill?

I am definitely not as good as the attack ranks say, I was just at the right place at the right time. Half way through the tour I'm still top 10, rank is about skill not being lucky, there is no perfect system, but this one is easily fooled.

I made this post both as a wish for change and/or ideas for improvement, I have already proven its broken by my ranking.

[LCADolby]

No one has placed Damage done in their argument 

[Skyyr]

Do you really think an average player could achieve this?

How many people do you think that play can achieve 10 kills in 10 mins?

HiTech

An average player on an average run? No, it'd be very difficult.

An average player on a stat-padding run, where they specifically wait for the right moment? Fairly easy. You see, many players will specifically only fly attack sorties, waiting until they see a good opportunity to get a bunch of fighter kills. They then switch to fighter mode (or log onto an alternate account) and pad there score, then either park the name and log off, or switch back to attack.

Your question underscores my point. It is very hard to maintain that number of kills over time, but the current system doesn't take into account a weighted context, so someone who got lucky once then has the opportunity to remain parked in their current position until the end of the tour.

I believe weighting addresses this issue, and I've seen it work first hand. Weighting the stats forces the user to maintain that level of performance or risk dropping in rank. It reinforces skill development over lucky and advantageous sorties, as it minimizes their overall effectiveness.