need advise on 7.1 sound card

[MrRiplEy[H]]

See Rule #4, #2

[morfiend]

I also wouldn't invest into a computer gaming sound card. If I wanted to build a PC for music it would use a high-end non-gaming sound card. Currently I'm using my Macbook pro with a USB DAC although the MBP and the iPhone do a pretty good job playing straight from the jack too.

I have Electro-Voice ELX112P:s for outdoor party / garden listening by the way. My mobile party set has a combined output power of 4,5 kilowatts I can host even a large party easily.

If the ESL you've listened has lacked also TOP end  were you perhaps listening to the legendary Quad63's? They're quoted as the worlds finest mid-range speakers

Usually ESLs have extremely high quality high frequency response due to the operating method. But you need to sit absolutely in the sweet spot because you can hear the highs only direcly in front of the panel. Cheap ESLs are actually usually overbright because they lack the active correction required. A good ESL will have a shelving EQ circuit to correct the dipole roll-off and suck out the panel resonance bump. Also the size of the panel matters a lot, small curved ESLs I don't like either. For example Martin Logans smaller models - I can't stand them. Not directive enough and you can hear the muddy bass because theyre hybrid. Full range ESL (the size of a barn door) and a good dipole or kardioid sub is the way to go. Also transmission line bass is said to be excellent with ESLs but they're very bulky.

   You misunderstood me,I said they lacked bottom end not top!   The highs were too brilliant for my taste and the reason I said they sounded tinny...

  I was in a proper "listening room" and I remember it was a tangent amp,the shop was trying to sell me some new speakers and since it was awhile back I cant remember all the particulars. IIRC they had a set of magna's and another ESL,I was looking at a used set of crowns but settled on the EV's their interface series D models.

   Today I only really like to listen to records with all the hiss pops and crackles,IMHO digital sound just doesnt do it for me.  I have a fairly large collection of old vinyl so if I really need a music fix there's always something I havent heard in a long time.

  Sure I have CD's and a nice player but it just sounds "canned" to me.   Tho with my hearing pretty much everything sounds that way!



   

[MrRiplEy[H]]

   You misunderstood me,I said they lacked bottom end not top!   The highs were too brilliant for my taste and the reason I said they sounded tinny...

  I was in a proper "listening room" and I remember it was a tangent amp,the shop was trying to sell me some new speakers and since it was awhile back I cant remember all the particulars. IIRC they had a set of magna's and another ESL,I was looking at a used set of crowns but settled on the EV's their interface series D models.

   Today I only really like to listen to records with all the hiss pops and crackles,IMHO digital sound just doesnt do it for me.  I have a fairly large collection of old vinyl so if I really need a music fix there's always something I havent heard in a long time.

  Sure I have CD's and a nice player but it just sounds "canned" to me.   Tho with my hearing pretty much everything sounds that way!



    

Yeah if they were too bright then they lacked the active correction I was speaking about. It's essential for ESLs.

Here is a response graph (unsmoothed, note that normally graphs are smoothed so you dont see all the ripples) from a DIY ESL panel:



You see the characteristic dipole roll-off and then the panel resonance bump at the bottom. Both those have to be suppressed with correction circuits if you want the panel to sound anywhere near good.

Here is the response graph of the Innersound Eros active corrected ESL:



Due to the strong directivity of the panel the frequency response of an ESL must be similar to a normal speakers power response. A flat response will still sound way overbright.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

See Rule #2

[zack1234]

Those graphs showing smoothing of the sound should be deleted!

I got drunk yesterday and that was the first thing i saw this morning 

He has some nice headphones now 

[morfiend]

Yeah if they were too bright then they lacked the active correction I was speaking about. It's essential for ESLs.

Here is a response graph (unsmoothed, note that normally graphs are smoothed so you dont see all the ripples) from a DIY ESL panel:

(Image removed from quote.)

You see the characteristic dipole roll-off and then the panel resonance bump at the bottom. Both those have to be suppressed with correction circuits if you want the panel to sound anywhere near good.

Here is the response graph of the Innersound Eros active corrected ESL:

(Image removed from quote.)

Due to the strong directivity of the panel the frequency response of an ESL must be similar to a normal speakers power response. A flat response will still sound way overbright.

  I remember the had a frequency slope equalizer,a pink noise machine and a regular equalizer call connected so I could customize the sound to my tastes!

  That said you corrected graph pretty much shows what I experienced,a brilliant top end and a lack of bottom. It's not like that cant be corrected with a nice sub and lowering the highs somewhat but I found you need the right room to listen to ESL's. If you stick them in the corner they will echo off the wall and the room needs to be quite large to stop that.


   Not that any of this matters to me anymore as I said I've lost the best part of my hearing and cant hear the highs anymore...Hmmm maybe the ESL's wont sound so brilliant and I need to go listen to some again....   As a result I've all but lost interest in putting together a sound system.



   

[ebfd11]

Skuzzy why battle with him its an endless battle

[MrRiplEy[H]]

  I remember the had a frequency slope equalizer,a pink noise machine and a regular equalizer call connected so I could customize the sound to my tastes!

  That said you corrected graph pretty much shows what I experienced,a brilliant top end and a lack of bottom. It's not like that cant be corrected with a nice sub and lowering the highs somewhat but I found you need the right room to listen to ESL's. If you stick them in the corner they will echo off the wall and the room needs to be quite large to stop that.


   Not that any of this matters to me anymore as I said I've lost the best part of my hearing and cant hear the highs anymore...Hmmm maybe the ESL's wont sound so brilliant and I need to go listen to some again....   As a result I've all but lost interest in putting together a sound system.



   

You should definately try out an active ESL. The clarity of the midrange is something that can't be heard from any other type of speaker. One of my friends described it like 'you can hear the silence between notes'. The response is so uncolored and fast that it makes regular speakers sound round and blurred.

[zack1234]

Skuzzy why battle with him its an endless battle

Its law

I have some Small Faces albums and they were one of the first records in the 60's to be recorded in stereo, they have bee digitised and they are "Totally" different

[morfiend]

Its law

I have some Small Faces albums and they were one of the first records in the 60's to be recorded in stereo, they have bee digitised and they are "Totally" different

   I'll see your small faces in stereo and up it with a mono beatles album!



    Great group the smalls were!


   

[zack1234]

I have a conterfiet "Rubber Soul" its all in Russian even the "Rubber Soul" title on the album cover

Its the Beatles original recordings but they are slighty faster than the original