Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?

[Someguy63]

Typical "Mr Know it all" bs.

Take any 109 you want and go against Bruv. The only fights you'd win would be IF Bruv makes a mistake.

Now against the normal  rabble  in the MA, ya a good 109 stick would beat most spits. That is only because  the majority  of the players  are rather poor fighter jocks, not due to the planes.

Bruv surpasses the "decent stick" title by far.

[PR3D4TOR]

Who has the advantage depends on which 109 and Spit combination we're talking about.

[glzsqd]

Typical "Mr Know it all" bs.

Take any 109 you want and go against Bruv. The only fights you'd win would be IF Bruv makes a mistake.

Bruv would open me up with nearly every plane in the lineup, getting smack around by him wouldn't prove a thing.

[DmonSlyr]

Thanks for compliments fellas. The G14 is my favorite one to fly. The K4 is very fun but I use the G14 more only because of the ammo load out, plus the G14 can out turn the K4

So let's get it straight.
The only 109 that has a real chance at out turning or flying a good spit is the 109F, or maybe the 109E depending on the E status. All else though, the spit is just way more agile and responds much more quickly than a 109. You may have the best chance at out turning a Spit14 since that plane doesn't really fly the same as the others. The spit is much lighter, and vs a good pilot they will normally out maneuver you. The spit1, seafire, 5,8,16 will all completely domintate the 109s in a turn fight.

As fugitive said, you feel good because you can beat spits that most of the time don't know what they are capable of. Many pilots you come across in the MA don't have a lot of time flying the plane. It is easy to pick a spitfire, and a lot of times starting the fight with more E gives the good 109 sticks are strong advnatage. The key to beat spits and other planes that can turn better is to be extremely good at prediciting where you should create an angle vs the agile spit. So you should predict were they are going to fly and create an angle (from an emmillman) to get a shot. You create angles by using aileron, rudder, flap control, stall controll, and throttle control at the top of the emmillman to point the nose in the downward angle (predicting where they will fly to get a quick snap shot). If you have the E advantage this works very well. If you don't have more, it takes practice to set up this situation so that you can gain the angles to make the shot. The more times you go around the more E you lose, and vs a better turning plane, the more E you lose is deadly because they will roll inside you and you won't be able to get away or climb for another roll around. VS a spit or F4U, this is an dangerous position to be in.

[FBKampfer]

I'd argue that the K and G-14 can handle a low E fight with the F4U's since they generally suck at building E. You don't want to get there, and you really don't want to stay there, but it's not catastrophic, unless the hog has a pretty significant E advantage.

Immelman up at around 200mph, accelerate to 200, repeat. 

[PR3D4TOR]

Spitfires are not lighter than their contemporary 109 opponents. They're usually heavier in fact. It's more a matter of wing loading. Against the Spit8, 14 and 16 a 109K-4 can only use its speed and marginally better climb rate. The Spit14 is only marginally better at turning and doesn't have useful flaps, so the K-4 can beat it in a stall fight, but no good Spit14 driver is going to let him do that. The Spit8/16 is significantly slower, so the K-4 can easily build E in relative safety, but that is generally frowned upon in dueling circles. In the MA however co-E and co-alt the Spit8/16 would find itself on the defensive against a good K-4 driver making slashing attacks from a position of superior E. The G-14 is slightly slower than the K-4 so the advantage is more marginal. The 109G-2 and 6 are significantly underpowered compared to the Spit14 and 16 and will be at a disadvantage in every way. The G-2 might out turn the Spits using flaps, but both Spits can just climb away at will.

All earlier Spits are seriously outperformed by the 109G-14 and K-4, and matched by the 109F-4 and G-2/6.

[The Fugitive]

Bruv would open me up with nearly every plane in the lineup, getting smack around by him wouldn't prove a thing.

It proves you can't make a sweeping statement like that because it is false. The Spit is one of the easiest planes to fight in as it is very forgiving. 109s, not so much.

I'm just trying to help keep the facts straight here.

And I'm still waiting  of the films players promised. 

[Someguy63]

It proves you can't make a sweeping statement like that because it is false. The Spit is one of the easiest planes to fight in as it is very forgiving. 109s, not so much.

I'm just trying to help keep the facts straight here.

And I'm still waiting  of the films players promised. 

I will post them today didn't know anyone was waiting.

[glzsqd]

It proves you can't make a sweeping statement like that because it is false. The Spit is one of the easiest planes to fight in as it is very forgiving. 109s, not so much.

I'm just trying to help keep the facts straight here.

And I'm still waiting  of the films players promised. 

The Spit8/16 are significantly slower, so the K-4 can easily build E in relative safety

Why don't you fly a spitfire against the great 109 sticks, any fight you'd win would be because of their mistake .




I don't mind rebuttals but telling me to "GO FIGHT BRUV!!!" is childish.

[The Fugitive]

Why don't you fly a spitfire against the great 109 sticks, any fight you'd win would be because of their mistake .




I don't mind rebuttals but telling me to "GO FIGHT BRUV!!!" is childish.

Ok one last reply to you as you seem to be too butt hurt to understand.

You made a statement that was false as there are many good spit jockeys that could beat you in a 109. Your statement was based on what you believe is true due to your ego. You always win against spits when you fly a 109, so it means the 109 always win against spits.

I only pointed out that you were wrong. Just trying to keep the fact straight as in the 109 is NOT always going to beat a spit.

[DmonSlyr]

DONT LISTEN TO FBKampfer

You don't know what you are talking about!!!

F4u will domintate any 109 besides maybe the 109 F in a turn fight. I mean seriously dude you cannot make training comments about planes when you have only been playing for prob less than a year.

And predator I'm sorry man but the 109g14 or K will lose in a heartbeat to a spit16 or 8. As soon as they get around on your 6 their is no extending away, the spit 8/16 will out zoom climb both of these planes all day long. You guys seriously don't fight that much in the DA to understand the significance. Just because you guys can beat newbs in the MA doesn't mean you have that much of an understanding about pushing the envelope of both planes to their max performance. And again like fugi said, the spits are much more forgiving, don't stall as hard, and are generally easier to fly in AH than 109s. The 109s are actually a pretty advanced plane to learn simply because you can't always out run from your opponent and because they cannot dive that well. This makes learning defense maneuvers a necessity and its one of the more harder concepts to learn in AH regarding timing, SA, plane performance, ACM, and aiming.

I didn't find a good Video I liked but I'll get one after work.

[Someguy63]

Ok one last reply to you as you seem to be too butt hurt to understand.

You made a statement that was false as there are many good spit jockeys that could beat you in a 109. Your statement was based on what you believe is true due to your ego. You always win against spits when you fly a 109, so it means the 109 always win against spits.

I only pointed out that you were wrong. Just trying to keep the fact straight as in the 109 is NOT always going to beat a spit.

He did say a 109 can beat a spit. You must realize that can doesn't mean every single time no question. It only means it's possible.

Therefore both claims of his and yours have their pros and cons. Well, at least when an opposing party has something to say of course.

[glzsqd]

Ok one last reply to you as you seem to be too butt hurt to understand.

You made a statement that was false as there are many good spit jockeys that could beat you in a 109. Your statement was based on what you believe is true due to your ego. You always win against spits when you fly a 109, so it means the 109 always win against spits.

I only pointed out that you were wrong. Just trying to keep the fact straight as in the 109 is NOT always going to beat a spit.

Butthurt? Are you 4 years old or just drunk?

All I said was "109s can out fight spits" lol. I believe that when it comes down to it, the 109 is the superior air frame in terms of fighter on fighter. It has nothing at all to do with my "ego" or  because "I always win against spits" because that is false. To be quite frank, you pulled that all out of your arse.

Ok one last reply to you, because I'm incapable of a mature discussion. If it isn't grunting and throwing feces at one another, I'm not interested.

Fixed.

[glzsqd]

And predator I'm sorry man but the 109g14 or K will lose in a heartbeat to a spit16 or 8. As soon as they get around on your 6 their is no extending away, the spit 8/16 will out zoom climb both of these planes all day long. You guys seriously don't fight that much in the DA to understand the significance. Just because you guys can beat newbs in the MA doesn't mean you have that much of an understanding about pushing the envelope of both planes to their max performance. And again like fugi said, the spits are much more forgiving, don't stall as hard, and are generally easier to fly in AH than 109s. The 109s are actually a pretty advanced plane to learn simply because you can't always out run from your opponent and because they cannot dive that well. This makes learning defense maneuvers a necessity and its one of the more harder concepts to learn in AH regarding timing, SA, plane performance, ACM, and aiming.

I didn't find a good Video I liked but I'll get one after work.

109s have much better stalling characteristics than the Spitfires, It's one of their chief advantages in a stall fight. Spitfires are easier to handle until they reach their stall speeds. I do agree, that the Spitfire has the advantage in a turn/angles fight, however the 109 has the advantage in the E fight. 

DA fights are different from what you expect in the typical combat environment, and a combat environment allows the 109 to exercise its greatest attribute any plane can have over its opponent  Speed
ll co
I really do love 109 vs spit debates because they are so evenly matched.

[DmonSlyr]

109s have much better stalling characteristics that the Spitfires, It's one of their chief advantages in a stall fight. Spitfires are easier to handle until they reach their stall speeds.

It has a better flap structure that is for sure, but better stalling characteristics is a little overstated. The spit will easily out barrel roll the 109s, gains speed almost or just as quickly, and can hold its E very well during turns, plus reaction time and nose heaviness are much lighter on the spit which help it very much when going verticle. Gotta watch out for that upside down flat stall in the spit. The problem is that most people don't know how to use the flaps correctly on the spits. If you fight krupnski, or Joachim in a spit vs  a 109, you won't beat them. Nor if ink were in a Ki84 or if I was In a F4U. The 109s simply cannot beat these planes in a rolling scissors.