Author Topic: How or Why we will reverse global warming  (Read 36204 times)

Offline SysError

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #150 on: October 01, 2015, 08:02:00 PM »
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SysError

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Offline NatCigg

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #151 on: October 01, 2015, 08:08:47 PM »
A tree can absorb as much as 48 pounds of carbon dioxide per year and can sequester 1 ton of carbon dioxide by the time it reaches 40 years old.

http://www.ncsu.edu/project/treesofstrength/treefact.htm

Offline Chilli

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #152 on: October 01, 2015, 08:23:27 PM »
I want what you guys are having.

Okay, then step away from the keyboard.  Go outside and take a great big breath of reality. 

Or you could stay very comfortable within your own skin and say to heck with anything that is not effecting you right now.

 :rolleyes:  Man, a couple of guys got paid a bunch of money to get on the airwaves and spout conspiracy garbage, and ever since the average audience member's brain has shrunk to the size of a campaign button. 

I am not saying that includes you......   and I would love to stay and actually debate, but a "real" hurricane is pushing up the Atlantic, and although they say it most likely will miss, I am not one to go stand on the beach with my finger in the air.  I hope you are all safe and property secured.   :salute

A tree can absorb as much as 48 pounds of carbon dioxide per year and can sequester 1 ton of carbon dioxide by the time it reaches 40 years old.

http://www.ncsu.edu/project/treesofstrength/treefact.htm

That's nice to know, did you know Cow farts could deplete the ozone?   :rolleyes:

Offline NatCigg

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #153 on: October 01, 2015, 08:29:25 PM »
Okay, then step away from the keyboard.  Go outside and take a great big breath of reality. 

Or you could stay very comfortable within your own skin and say to heck with anything that is not effecting you right now.

 :rolleyes:  Man, a couple of guys got paid a bunch of money to get on the airwaves and spout conspiracy garbage, and ever since the average audience member's brain has shrunk to the size of a campaign button. 

I am not saying that includes you......   and I would love to stay and actually debate, but a "real" hurricane is pushing up the Atlantic, and although they say it most likely will miss, I am not one to go stand on the beach with my finger in the air.  I hope you are all safe and property secured.   :salute

That's nice to know, did you know Cow farts could deplete the ozone?   :rolleyes:

We must attach a pilot lite on all cows butts!

Offline SysError

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #154 on: October 01, 2015, 08:29:54 PM »
Sys Error, your error is that you think that more information will persuade anyone over this topic. If anything more information will only increase the polarization of views.  What is at work here, I believe, (and I'm sure you could find a behavioral psychology study to back this up, but really, whats the point?) is a form of tribalism. There are people who believe that the majority scientific opinion that you cite is bogus. There is nothing you could link to or declare that is going to make any difference in that belief. Everything you post is immediately discounted as ideologically driven dissembling.

It seems self evident to me that we live in the anthropocene. I do not believe that climate science is the same as Lysenkoism. The world is a small place and it is getting smaller.

I think that I agree with you.

Here is something I posted to a Brooke comment just a little bit ago.
 
Quote
I want to say at the outset that I do not engage in these community posts with any delusion that minds are going to substantially change.  White middle aged (or older) western males, (or perhaps just all mature men worldwide, I do not know) rarely publicly acknowledge a change in their positions.   If they do, it is usually because the issue is inconsequential to them, or, they find themselves trying to find a face saving eddy to shelter in until the storm passes.  A consequence of Argument as War where learning equals losing perhaps?

https://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_h_cohen_for_argument_s_sake?language=en


For me anyway, I tend to think that because writing is a “linear” process, whereas thinking is not, that writing helps me to organize and sharpen my thoughts.  In other words, it is a pretty selfish endeavor.



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Offline SysError

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #155 on: October 01, 2015, 08:38:34 PM »

That's nice to know, did you know Cow farts could deplete the ozone?   :rolleyes:



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Offline Mar

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #156 on: October 01, 2015, 09:15:13 PM »
Okay, then step away from the keyboard.  Go outside and take a great big breath of reality.

Oh, so not having your lungs assaulted is a bad thing now?

Really now, I'm not trying to start any trouble.

A tree can absorb as much as 48 pounds of carbon dioxide per year and can sequester 1 ton of carbon dioxide by the time it reaches 40 years old.

http://www.ncsu.edu/project/treesofstrength/treefact.htm

Ok, what I meant was that it seemed you missed the 'm' which I think indicates 700 million tons.
𝒻𝓇𝑜𝓂 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓈𝒽𝒶𝒹𝑜𝓌𝓈 𝑜𝒻 𝓌𝒶𝓇'𝓈 𝓅𝒶𝓈𝓉 𝒶 𝒹𝑒𝓂𝑜𝓃 𝑜𝒻 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝒶𝒾𝓇 𝓇𝒾𝓈𝑒𝓈 𝒻𝓇𝑜𝓂 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝑔𝓇𝒶𝓋𝑒

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Offline FLS

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #157 on: October 01, 2015, 11:09:59 PM »
Provide your proof.

Proof that I linked an article and properly quoted it?  Just read it.

Note that you yourself have proved nothing.   

You have an opinion you took on faith that makes you feel good about yourself.   :aok

I'll remain open-minded in the absence of proof.

Got any numbers on carbon trading? 



 
 




Offline FBKampfer

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #158 on: October 02, 2015, 12:45:18 AM »
:airplane: Your words are elegant and very admiral, and the sad thing is, there is nothing we can do about so called global warming! Yes, some of the industrial "scrubbers" have increase the quality of air in and around some of our industrial cities!
But, since "trees" contribute more carbon into the atmosphere than do humans, do you think we should cut down all trees and go back to living in mud huts?
God, through his grace, have given us the intelligence to figure out as humans, how to increase our quality of life on this earth! While it is easy for people to disagree with you and I, even though we have different points of view about this subject, the best thing man can do to help his quality of life on this earth is to build things which are carbon free, because there is nothing we can do about the past.
I think that with people with  your point of view, will cost people in the U.S. so much money, you will have people on fixed incomes "freezing" to death because they can't afford their electrical bills.
Unfortunately the powers that be in this country, just don't understand the "un-intended" results of some of the laws that are passed, so this subject is like most others, they don't seem to care about the results of their actions, they only care about remaining in their "ivory" towers in Washington!
Now, with the benefit of hind sight, wouldn't it be nice to go back to 1960 and start over? Of course I know a lot of people reading this wouldn't even be born yet, but we would know better how to educate them on problems facing us!
First thing I would do is, when someone gets to the age of 14, they are given, free of charge, a J-3 cub, with 100 gallons of free gas and told to learn how to fly and respect the earth that God has given us to enjoy. I have yet to meet anyone who flies who does not have a different outlook on themselves and other humans. Maybe that is the answer to our present day problems, give everybody a J-3 cub. LOL

Earl, some things are worth fighting for, a planet our kids will want to live on is one of them, in my view. Nobody who is serious has ever said it will be easy, or cheap, only that it will be necessary.

And trees mostly contribute carbon via dying, something shared with every living thing on the planet.

As for the carbon-based products, the primary problem is that most of it is simply thrown away, and ends up being burned.


Of course the overarching problem is our need for power, which can be met by a number of sources.I personally am an advocate of nuclear power, as an interim until other sources can be sufficiently integrated into the power grid.


Of course we also face the problem that the world does in fact have a carrying capacity, and that nobody has done anything about it. At some point, we have to face the fact that we can't have 11 billion people living in 1200sq ft homes, using up all the power they want. Which is the direction we're heading.

We're eventually even wealthy nations are going to openly go to war over consumable resources, or we're going to have to accept draconian and strictly regulated birth limits enforced by the government. Alternatively, we can also have forced euthanisation at a set age determined by birthrates, so that the population doesn't increase. It's a toejamty choice straight out of some Orwellian dystopia, and I don't claim otherwise. But it is, by the simple nature of population increase and limited resources, the choice we're faced with.

Anyone who truly understands the situation, and is not advocating immediate action, is desperately praying for science to save us. But it's a gamble, and the stakes are not something I personally am comfortable with.
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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #159 on: October 02, 2015, 12:52:36 AM »
i like this guy.  :airplane:

fbkamp do we want to compare carbon footprints?  id guess its about the same.  im like most people and try to recycle my used oil.  you are talking in a brainwashed state of mind. you see we all like things clean and sustainable, its more a mater of how this happens. point A: forcing people to do things like not burn wood for heat is ridiculous. point B: forcing people to build a dam to supply power and water is ridiculous. what side are u on A or B?

I accept they're ridiculous options. But I also accept that, at some point in time, they will not be options, but necessary and desperate acts to save a crumbling way of life.

As I told Earl, it sucks. But, as contributors to the problem, we also have a responsibility to take action. If that action is, for you, simply recycling, then that's your call. I can't force you to change your mind. If it's donating to scientific research, or environmental groups, again that's your call.

However, you must accept some level of responsibility and accountability, and deal with it on your death bed, or with your god.
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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #160 on: October 02, 2015, 01:11:23 AM »
The US cleaned up it's act long before China, India, Africa and the Pacific rim took over polluting and consuming at levels the US with only 350 million people could never accomplish now that we castrated ourselves in the name of white guilt and political correctness. The UN can only steal power and money from the first world and do not have the power or the will to try and force the previously mentioned countries and regions to stop killing the planet. They have no reason to really want to solve global BS warming because it increases their money and power to hold never ending summits about it. China will tell the world to whizz off just like it did for the Kyoto protocol if the world try's to force it to stop the path it's on. And you have watched China periodically prove it can cripple the West visa cyber attacks if it really wants to. Or just call in everyone's loans and cause another world wide economic crash. Feeding your family today always trumps computer projected disasters 50 years from now when the prognosticators are all dead and buried.

Go whine at the Chinese and try out your save the earth zealotry on them. They don't care about your PC nonsense anymore than I do. They would also arrest you for subversive activities and not deport you, which is why everyone attacks the U.S.A. and it's citizens. It's safe, lazy and Americans can be guilt tripped into giving money to stop feeling guilty over things as stupid as personal farting causes global warming. I guess fiber is ultimately gonna kill us all after the PC food police told us we had to eat it or else.

Earl,

Rebuilt an Aeronca Champion and resold it when I was 17 to pay for college. One of the benefits of my father being a commercial pilot and instructor with friends in that industry. Learned why you wear gloves shooting a sand blaster.

That you view it as "castration" is telling. We don't have a right to freely take all we want, because as people of your mind set are so fond of spouting, nothing is free.

There is a cost, in this case a greater one than any purely monetary computation of the resources taken, and damage  done, because it affects other people's lives, and eventually will impact your children, or their children, no matter how rich and ignorant they turn out to be.

Additionally, I believe that at some point, failure to take action on climate change and pollution should be a casus belli. We'll end up fighting each other if we keep on down this road, the only choice is whether it's over the last of the oil, or making them take their hand out of the cookie jar.


And I believe you're misapplying the term "PC", as well commiting a logical fallacy in construing "politically correct" as inherently wrong. Instead of telling you to check your privileged, or something else you neither believe in, nor would do simply because it's coming from a "leftist", I'm going to tell you to check the Wikipedia article on logically fallacies, as well as accredited sources on population growth and world carrying capacity.
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Offline zack1234

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #161 on: October 02, 2015, 01:41:31 AM »
Global warming is a myth :old:

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Offline NatCigg

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #162 on: October 02, 2015, 02:05:06 AM »
Oh, so not having your lungs assaulted is a bad thing now?

Really now, I'm not trying to start any trouble.

Ok, what I meant was that it seemed you missed the 'm' which I think indicates 700 million tons.

well pickle my sausage, i thought the "m" stood for metric.  i guess thats what i get when i read million in the first half of the sentence then move on to a cryptic 700m wording.  :salute

Offline NatCigg

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #163 on: October 02, 2015, 02:08:54 AM »
I accept they're ridiculous options. But I also accept that, at some point in time, they will not be options, but necessary and desperate acts to save a crumbling way of life.

As I told Earl, it sucks. But, as contributors to the problem, we also have a responsibility to take action. If that action is, for you, simply recycling, then that's your call. I can't force you to change your mind. If it's donating to scientific research, or environmental groups, again that's your call.

However, you must accept some level of responsibility and accountability, and deal with it on your death bed, or with your god.
building a dam is not a ridiculous idea.  :old:  :bhead

 :rofl

dont kill the yellow scorpions and rock lichen.

 :salute
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 02:10:41 AM by NatCigg »

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #164 on: October 02, 2015, 05:06:07 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

I believe that climate change is happening and that man is significantly contributing to it. 

So on the one side you have thousands of scientists (97% of all scientists) saying that there is evidence for it.   

http://theconsensusproject.com/#sharePage



Apparently, you haven't researched that metric at all.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303480304579578462813553136

Even given the selection bias issue, they set the bar pretty low. THe two questions required to join the "consensus" would actually make me a consensus member.

As for the rest of your citations, none are actually from scientific journals. All appear to be TV productions. If you were a member of the technical community, I'd expect you to know better.

Have a look at what some real scientists are saying, then we'll talk more.
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/06/big-news-viii-new-solar-model-predicts-imminent-global-cooling/
http://notrickszone.com/2014/06/29/german-geologist-ipcc-models-a-failure-have-no-chance-of-success-sees-possible-0-2c-of-cooling-by-2020/#sthash.6ltmEScq.dpbs
http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/05/29/scientist-dr-daniel-botkin-tells-congress-why-he-reversed-his-belief-in-global-warming-to-become-a-skeptic-there-are-several-lines-of-evidence-suggesting-that-it-agw-is-a-weaker-case-today-not/
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2013/12/new-paper-predicts-another-little-ice.html


I could go on... The problem with warmists: you keep claiming to want totalk science but nonoe of you seen to have ever been within miles of it nor bothered to talk to any actual scientists.
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