How or Why we will reverse global warming

[bustr]

Japan doesn't run around banging the global warming gong and trying to force the world to believe or else. But, they have a lot at stake "if" there is any possibility.

Tokyo

Based on a study of the land mass, population and assets at risk as indicators, the impact of sea level rise was evaluated. Using different water levels - mean water, high water, high tide, and storm surge/tsunami - it was discovered that even at normal conditions, more than 861 sq.km. is below mean high water level. There are two million people who live in this zone, with 54 trillion yen assets.

If the sea level rises by 1 m, this zone will expand to 2,340 sq.km or 2.7 times larger. The affected population will be 4.1 million, and assets will be 109 trillion yen. Moreover, the flood prone area, which is currently 6,270 sq.km. will expand to 8,900 sq.km. if the sea-level rises 1 m. More than 15 million may be endangered.

http://www.gdrc.org/oceans/un-seahorse/sea-rise.html
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Scientists are a useful side show while governments control the money and power. Japan is not taking the sky is falling approach like the west is to stir up the masses and keep them from using critical thinking about the whole process. Japan has a problem with high tides and storm surges during normal times in Tokyo. Their existing system of canals and storm gates would be overwhelmed and a portion of Tokyo permanently flooded "if" any of the predictions and time frame are marginally true. If their government actually believed on the level our friend Sys charts GW doom by 2100, from the best and brightest of Japanese researchers findings, Japan wouldn't sit still quietly waiting to loose 109 trillion yen forever.

There are too many variables and outcome manipulated computer programs for any government in Japan's position to believe the scientists who manipulated the programs. To date Japan has not started building a 100ft deep and 100ft high sea wall in Tokyo harbor to protect that part of Tokyo from flooding. I trust the Japanese would if they believed Al Gore.....

[MrKrabs]

What if we simply not let Rosie O'donnell near the beach anymore? Should take care of sea levels right?

[PJ_Godzilla]

What if we simply not let Rosie O'donnell near the beach anymore? Should take care of sea levels right?

Presumably, but then you'd have to worry about gale force winds. Why? People like her blowhard.

[SysError]

I'll make you happy. My lumping of Gore and IPCC together misrepresents IPCC. On this matter I stand corrected. In fact, the IPCC position is well-covered here.

Just a short while ago Brooke spotted an error that I had made in reading/processing a point.  Arghh…  But as I stated then and still believe, I am glad that he pointed it out to me.  I corrected a misconception that I had and learned something.  Culturally, where people view arguments as a type of war, I would have seemed to have “lost” while Brooke would be seen as “winning”.  But I am the one that gained something (corrected information) and Brooke, besides perhaps experiencing a momentary smile, does not get anything out of the exchange.  (Assuming that he did not have to conduct a bunch of research to make his point).  There are those on this BBS who never concede a point.  I think that you lose when that is all you do.  I really hope that everyone takes the time to watch that TED talk link I posted on this topic. 

On the topic of Al Gore and the CO2 lead/lag Temp issue, I provided what I think is the best defense that one can come with.  But at the end of the day it is what it is. Again, he should have had a thorough review process even though he was not producing a scientific paper.

As to where to go next.  I have a post ready on your What’s Up With That guys.   Just need a final re-read then I can post.

I have gotten into the RSS issue.  I can stop and go the Bengtsson/Totten route, but I am finding that satellite issue very interesting.  (Your call here, in the end I do mind either way).

Just FYI, I am as busy as a one arm wall paper hanger these days.  There may be lags in my posts.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Just a short while ago Brooke spotted an error that I had made in reading/processing a point.  Arghh…  But as I stated then and still believe, I am glad that he pointed it out to me.  I corrected a misconception that I had and learned something.  Culturally, where people view arguments as a type of war, I would have seemed to have “lost” while Brooke would be seen as “winning”.  But I am the one that gained something (corrected information) and Brooke, besides perhaps experiencing a momentary smile, does not get anything out of the exchange.  (Assuming that he did not have to conduct a bunch of research to make his point).  There are those on this BBS who never concede a point.  I think that you lose when that is all you do.  I really hope that everyone takes the time to watch that TED talk link I posted on this topic. 

Fully agreed here. I've been wrong before and will be again (and am aware of it) and you have actually enhanced my thinking. After all, i used to lump the AIT position together with the IPCC position and that doesn't look as carefully considered as my evolved understanding based on your critique.

Anyway, take your time. This topic will be here for a while. It has legs.

[FLS]

Perhaps the next 20 years will show a trend that reasonable people will agree on.

[PJ_Godzilla]

The qualifier is critical.

[FLS]

I thought it was reasonable.

[Tumor]

When Mother Earth decides to either Fry us off, or Freeze us off.... she will.  And there isn't damnit we can do about it... except maybe go somewhere else, like, in 2 or 3 centuries, maybe.

[WWhiskey]

Once there is a couple hundred years of uncorrected data, no manipulation of the numbers, just the actual numbers,, then I'll pay attention,, or some of my offspring maybe.

[NatCigg]

problem is our approximately average of 30 years of  postpubescence experience on earth feels everything should stay the same, plant crops, first frost, christmas, yadda yadda.  then throw in some education about pollution.  ultimately a fear of self induced destruction is in all of us.  then the cry of the sky is falling gets started and everyone runs around scared, they believe the sky is falling!  just look at the storms they are huge!  turn on the news and feed your fear, its a positive feedback loop of self gratifying hate mixed with self gratifying love of hate.  Just look at the drought they are huge! I ask what is normal?  is it normal if a bacteria farts?  what if they all fart?  What if all bacteria farting becomes the new normal?  Well as a scientist I must say we should stop bacteria farts, because i know they are responsible for this awful smell.  This smell is so bad i can not smell grandmas apple pie, and darnit i like grandmas apple pie, my great great grand kids are going to smell my grandmas apple pie if I can help it.  now you listen here bacteria your not going to fart anymore or I will kill you. the buck stops here.  and if you bacteria know whats good for you, you to will stop farting.  no more farting!  so what if your stomach hurts, you should of not ate anything, did you not pay attention is class you jackwaggon.  now im going to go eat some pie.  I eat responsibly and and you should to, just no more farting or the pie will not taste as good.  good day sir. 

[bustr]

Much of the main stream media is helping to keep information counter to GW out of the public conversation.

http://blog.heartland.org/2014/01/the-endless-fruitless-search-for-climate-refugees/


In early 2011, Gavin Atkins asked: “What happened to the climate refugees?” In his Asian Correspondent post, he used census records to show that the populations in the low-lying areas predicted to “flee a range of disasters including sea level rise” had actually grown—including no fewer than the top six of the very fastest growing cities in China.

Based on both in-person observation and historic evidence from Western Europe, Endlich has made a study of sea level rise. Citing geological features such as stream meanders upstream of Pisa on the Arno River and new shorelines on the coast of the Ligurian Sea, and history, he told me:

What may be news to many is that there is widespread evidence in the Mediterranean Basin and the English Channel coast that sea levels in Roman and Medieval periods were significantly higher than at present. The Roman port of Ostia Antica, the port at Ephesus, now in Turkey, and Pisa have histories showing the Mediterranean Seas significantly higher than today’s sea levels.

Endlich continued:

In 1066, William the Conqueror defeated King Harold at the Battle of Hastings. Less well-known is when William landed, he first occupied an old Roman fort now known as Pevensey Castle, which at the time was located on a small island in a harbor on England’s south coast. A drawbridge connected castle to mainland. Pevensey is infamous because unfortunate prisoners were thrown out this ‘Sea Gate,’ so that their bodies would be washed away by the tide. Pevensey Castle is now a mile from the coast—further proof of higher sea levels fewer than 1000 years ago.

The glacial-interglacial temperature data from the past 400,000 years shows each of the previous four interglacials significantly warmer than at present. In fact, a careful analysis of the ice cores from East Antarctica, published as a letter in Nature, shows that maximum temperatures from previous interglacials were at least 6C/10F warmer than present-day temperatures, with CO2 values then about 280 PPM, and today’s values near 400 PPM. Leaving one to ask: “if CO2 is such a strong cause of warming, why is it so cold today?”

[NatCigg]

lets look at another planet that has runaway co2 induced global warming.  venus, the average temperature is a cool 872 degrees.  sure it is a little closer to the sun but it is the same size as earth.  the atmosphere has some co2 in it just like earth a mere 965,000 ppm.  Now if we are not careful we could soon be there as well.  currently earth has a co2 concentration around 390 ppm. that's a long way from 965,000 ppm but we are trending upward despite almost all life on earth craving to consume more co2.  current co2 increase rates are near 15 ppm per decade or 1.5 ppm per year.  so if we can continue to find new carbon, not any recycled crap but some new stuff every year we can eventually have a co2 oven like venus. it will only take (965,000 - 390) / 1.5 = ummm.... only another 643,074 years.  earth has been around a lot longer than that.  we can do it! just think, you will be able to fry a turkey in your fridge!  maybe ovens will be used to forge your own golf clubs? oh the possibilitys. 

[bustr]

Venus is not earth.

The glacial-interglacial temperature data from the past 400,000 years shows each of the previous four interglacials significantly warmer than at present. In fact, a careful analysis of the ice cores from East Antarctica, published as a letter in Nature, shows that maximum temperatures from previous interglacials were at least 6C/10F warmer than present-day temperatures, with CO2 values then about 280 PPM, and today’s values near 400 PPM. Leaving one to ask: “if CO2 is such a strong cause of warming, why is it so cold today?”

[PJ_Godzilla]

Further, co2 ppm counts are actually nowhere near as high as they've been... In the Carboniferous period, concentrations were as high as 8000 ppm. . http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html      .

Again, if co2 feedback forcing were the primary driver, we'd already be wearing asbestos underwear.

As for the comparison to Venus, now you are looking at a significant difference in THE primary driver.

As any junior-level student who has ever done a thermodynamic control volume analysis knows, differences in Qdot in can really drive total system energy differences.