vulching turns to harassment

[Vraciu]

Winning isn't everything--it's the only thing.


This game is about combat.   There are no points for second place.

[DmonSlyr]

I guarantee you that if more people adopted my play style there'd be a lot more furballs, action, and kills going on. Your just mad because the hoard got you. The bish over ran the rooks. We captured your base and you got vulched. Whoopedoo.

I'm going 22-1 in a 109g2 right now. I can't run, I've fought myself out of many predicaments. When you can get that kind of response out of early/mid war plane in the late war, that is not detrimental to game play, that is flying style. Maybe other players should learn to play the game better and develop their skills. I've tought many people how to play and fight better in this game. I've helped many people get better at this game. My game play is detrimental because I've practiced the game for many years. If they are too weak to keep playing than that represents their character not mine.

[The Fugitive]

I guarantee you that if more people adopted my play style there'd be a lot more furballs, action, and kills going on. Your just mad because the hoard got you. The bish over ran the rooks. We captured your base and you got vulched. Whoopedoo.

I'm going 22-1 in a 109g2 right now. I can't run, I've fought myself out of many predicaments. When you can get that kind of response out of early/mid war plane in the late war, that is not detrimental to game play, that is flying style. Maybe other players should learn to play the game better and develop their skills. I've tought many people how to play and fight better in this game. I've helped many people get better at this game. My game play is detrimental because I've practiced the game for many years. If they are too weak to keep playing than that represents their character not mine.

Again with the patting yourself on the back.... LOL!!! you just don't get it. I bet I could get to 22-1 in a 109 if all I did was vulch    LOL!!!

As I said before, had I been able to get up with 200 mph and a hundred feet under my wings it wouldn't have mattered how many times you or your 12 other guys would have killed me I would have kept upping just for the fight, just to pit my meager skill against you and the 12 other guys giving you and your 12 other guys SOMEONE to fight. I would have gladly given you and your 12 other guys 20 kills just to have 20 fights.

But todays players can handle that. Just like they cant handle fighting for a base with the radar still being up, or flying at an altitude where they can be spotted.... heaven forbid! Everyone is in hit and run mode because they need to show they can have a 22-1 in a 109g2 

[Vudak]

What I think is far more detrimental to gameplay than vulching, is someone holding people to some Jedi-knight-meets-annoying-libertarian-at-the-party standard where the strictest honor code must be upheld in all MA engagements.

This is detrimental because it is basically a fat, slow, meatball of a pitch for the people who have been flying for 10, 15, 20 years yet who still can’t deal with a co-alt, and alert con.  They get to point to just how restrictive and ridiculous a code this is when they’re talking to the hordes of newer players they take into their squad and therefore under their wings on a daily basis.  They get to call such people “one-dimensional” or “suicidal,” and they get to keep convincing newer folks to never try and improve. 

Of all the lame things in the game, vulching and ho’ing bother me the least because they are the two lame things I can generally easily avoid.  Also, as much as we give the 10, 15, 20 year “vets” crap about them when that’s all they do (and there are plenty of people like that), for some newer guys, these are really their best chance of ever getting a kill and I do believe they need one of those now and then to come back tomorrow.

I like you Fugi, we go back, and I’m not trying to bash you here, but take a second and think about what I just said…  I really do think this exact scenario plays out.

[Tumor]

wow, look at all the 1337 skillz.   

[DmonSlyr]

What I think is far more detrimental to gameplay than vulching, is someone holding people to some Jedi-knight-meets-annoying-libertarian-at-the-party standard where the strictest honor code must be upheld in all MA engagements.

This is detrimental because it is basically a fat, slow, meatball of a pitch for the people who have been flying for 10, 15, 20 years yet who still can’t deal with a co-alt, and alert con.  They get to point to just how restrictive and ridiculous a code this is when they’re talking to the hordes of newer players they take into their squad and therefore under their wings on a daily basis.  They get to call such people “one-dimensional” or “suicidal,” and they get to keep convincing newer folks to never try and improve. 

Of all the lame things in the game, vulching and ho’ing bother me the least because they are the two lame things I can generally easily avoid.  Also, as much as we give the 10, 15, 20 year “vets” crap about them when that’s all they do (and there are plenty of people like that), for some newer guys, these are really their best chance of ever getting a kill and I do believe they need one of those now and then to come back tomorrow.

I like you Fugi, we go back, and I’m not trying to bash you here, but take a second and think about what I just said…  I really do think this exact scenario plays out.

I vulch one time in months, don't even remember the last time, in order to help capture the base, which is the point of the game and did happen in real life. And now after all the things I've achieved in this game, to be ridiculed by players who could never achieve them, telling me about skilll, and yet they don't see the fallacy because doing the things that represent skill don't qualify as being "skilled" in the eyes of some vet players because they chose not to fly at the same competive level as me therefore making the game detrimental to their success.

[Vraciu]

Don't like being vulched?    Don't roll from a CAP'ed field. 


Shooting someone in a parachute is unsportsmanlike.   Whacking uppers is just cartoon war.

[The Fugitive]

What I think is far more detrimental to gameplay than vulching, is someone holding people to some Jedi-knight-meets-annoying-libertarian-at-the-party standard where the strictest honor code must be upheld in all MA engagements.

This is detrimental because it is basically a fat, slow, meatball of a pitch for the people who have been flying for 10, 15, 20 years yet who still can’t deal with a co-alt, and alert con.  They get to point to just how restrictive and ridiculous a code this is when they’re talking to the hordes of newer players they take into their squad and therefore under their wings on a daily basis.  They get to call such people “one-dimensional” or “suicidal,” and they get to keep convincing newer folks to never try and improve. 

Of all the lame things in the game, vulching and ho’ing bother me the least because they are the two lame things I can generally easily avoid.  Also, as much as we give the 10, 15, 20 year “vets” crap about them when that’s all they do (and there are plenty of people like that), for some newer guys, these are really their best chance of ever getting a kill and I do believe they need one of those now and then to come back tomorrow.

I like you Fugi, we go back, and I’m not trying to bash you here, but take a second and think about what I just said…  I really do think this exact scenario plays out.

I personally try to play by an honor code but I don't expect others to follow it.

All Im saying here is as this is a game of combat why not have combat instead of either avoiding it, or cutting any chance of it developing by vulching and HOing? It not a "code" of any sort, its just providing more opportunity for fighting. Thats all.

I see the problem getting worst as now more and more "vets" are doing this as you so mentioned. I have seen a lot of "vets" doing more and more of this lame play and they used to be the standard others followed. I probably have film of a dozen of them HOing vulch and picking from a horde. I only named violator because he brought it up that he was vulching last night and tied it to an "well in the war" comparison. At which point he got on his high horse defending his game play.

The leaders in this game need to lead toward good game play, not lame game play.   

[Vudak]

I was vulching last night too...  I think I have a film of getting 2-3 vulches, and then also HOing someone.  But in the same film, I also had a white-knuckle fight on the deck vs. Yucca's P-47N, and then another great fight against Wizer's Ki-84.  I was in an La-7. Both of them got picked before we could reach a resolution and both fights were still up for grabs.   There's a very good chance I would have lost either.

The point being, how many in that crowd do you figure would risk landing 2-3 kills to go "all in" and turn fight, especially once they figured out the guy flying the other planes knew what he was doing, and if they had a plane that could have exited either fight at will?  There were other red cons around too, as well as flak nearby.

I'll bet you Violator would have as well as a few others but most of them would have turned and ran.

You're calling out the wrong kind of people <shrug>

[Vraciu]

I personally try to play by an honor code but I don't expect others to follow it.

All Im saying here is as this is a game of combat why not have combat instead of either avoiding it, or cutting any chance of it developing by vulching and HOing? It not a "code" of any sort, its just providing more opportunity for fighting. Thats all.

I see the problem getting worst as now more and more "vets" are doing this as you so mentioned. I have seen a lot of "vets" doing more and more of this lame play and they used to be the standard others followed. I probably have film of a dozen of them HOing vulch and picking from a horde. I only named violator because he brought it up that he was vulching last night and tied it to an "well in the war" comparison. At which point he got on his high horse defending his game play.

The leaders in this game need to lead toward good game play, not lame game play.

The leaders need to remind people not to roll from a CAP'ed field.

[The Fugitive]

I was vulching last night too...  I think I have a film of getting 2-3 vulches, and then also HOing someone.  But in the same film, I also had a white-knuckle fight on the deck vs. Yucca's P-47N, and then another great fight against Wizer's Ki-84.  I was in an La-7. Both of them got picked before we could reach a resolution and both fights were still up for grabs.   There's a very good chance I would have lost either.

The point being, how many in that crowd do you figure would risk landing 2-3 kills to go "all in" and turn fight, especially once they figured out the guy flying the other planes knew what he was doing, and if they had a plane that could have exited either fight at will?  There were other red cons around too, as well as flak nearby.

I'll bet you Violator would have as well as a few others but most of them would have turned and ran.

You're calling out the wrong kind of people <shrug>

so all in all your ok with a mediocre gaming experience were where you were happy with a few cheap kills and when you did get a fight someone else ended it for you. This is what I'm talking about. People are getting to be ok with a few vulchs. We use to have people who wanted to fight like Wildthng, Dred, +Blue, Delirium and so on. These guys almost never were at the top of the score board but they were the best of the best. This back when each flight ended up with a fight, not chasing someone through the ack over and over until one guy was down, or vulching a field for a few quick easy kills.

Im not saying making it against the rules to vulch. Like you said it is the first type of kills new players get, but "vets" don't need to do it. They have the skills to fight for a kill. Soon or later new players will strive to get better  like those "vets" and they will leave the vulchs behind as well.

The players we have now just don't want to fight and lame game play will kill this game.

The leaders need to remind people not to roll from a CAP'ed field.

Upping from a capped field can be a blast if you get your wheels up and don't care about getting killed a lot. I did try last night a couple of times but decided they didn't want a fight, they wanted easy kills so I went else where.

There are many times I've asked the "cap" to let them get off the ground. Some time they do, some times they don't. It just depends on who there and what they are after. Ever see Latrobe fight? He ups under a cap and is fighting 2 or 3 before he is out of the ack.

Im just trying to suggest that those who stand out as the "top guys" might want to lead by example and try to get people to move more toward fighting than lame game play thats all. The gaming experience is up to the players. We can either play lame, or try for something a bit better for everyone.

[Vudak]

so all in all your ok with a mediocre gaming experience were where you were happy with a few cheap kills and when you did get a fight someone else ended it for you.

No, I'm saying I vulched when that was what was available and I had a couple of great fights when that was available.  I had a good time.

I love fishing, but I have a lot more fun when I let the bass tell me what they want, than when I go to a lake and say "I'm going to use a jig all day."  This same concept applies to this game too.  If I log in and say "I'm going to fly an F4F all night," when conditions really warrant a D9, I'm not going to have much fun. 

I took 4 years or so off and I don't notice much difference in the gameplay at all to be honest.  The only difference is my attitude towards it.

[DmonSlyr]

Fugi you are the one who brought up my skill.

I don't think you understand the situation. I was not leading a charge. I was providing a cap on the base so C47 could get there. I had only been flying for 5 minutes prior to the vulch on my way to the base. Do you think I wanted to waste my time vulching a base? No! I've been here for 10 years. I don't need to vulch to prove my rank or anything. I was benefiting my team period. Not to mention I know you are being hypocritical because I know you've most likely done the same thing while your team was capturing a base.

Hell I flew a P40N all last tour just for the competiton and thrill of flying a harder plane. I don't need to fly easy mode planes or vulch to prove any stats. I have the Stats I do because I understand how be a good fighter in the MA. That is all there is to it. There is no way you will stop this hoarding, vulching, HOing, gameplay, it's built into the psychology of a war game and especially one that is a MMO style. You have to be the one to adapt and kill the players who do this instead of being a victim to it. That's just how this game works.

[The Fugitive]

....and it is sad that this is the way it goes. Change to the same lame play or look for another game instead of trying to enlighten people.

[Chris79]

Is this thread about being vulched, or gameplay that you find distasteful? There is no but yourself to blame if you get vulched. As for gameplay, there are many players and even entire squads whom I disagree with the way they go about their business, but I don't let it eat me up. Personally, there have been many of times where I fly solo under 8k to an enemy base with no other response then 88's. At which point I will proceed to deack. If your the poor sob that ups afterwards, I will vulch you.