P38J vs P51B MA 1v1 Flight Review

[FLS]

You're right TC, if an aircraft had no force to make it go up, it would fall out of the sky. If you pull back hard on the stick and the force to make your plane go straight shrinks, it's because you decreased engine power, or you're flying a glider.

Actually it's mostly because lift adds drag. The lift vector is not really perpendicular to flight path although it's convenient to think of it that way. It's tilted back a little which is why more lift equals more drag. So, gravity aside, when turn performance is reduced after increasing pitch it's because drag has reduced your speed since, as Dolby mentioned, lift is both speed and AOA.

[FLS]

Vector is not an aviation invention.  Vector is a mathematical display of forces.  A vector has both direction and length where the length is an indication of magnitude.

As an example, a plane is going straight and level has zero lift vector.  That is. the plane has no force to make it go up.  Pull back hard on the stick and the length of the lift vector goes up at the same time the force to make the plane go straight shrinks.

In level flight isn't the lift vector 1g? So the magnitude is expressed in radial g and the direction is near perpendicular to the flight path?

What we usually mean when we discuss lift vector is plane of maneuver. Flight path and lift vector direction being the 2 lines that define the plane.

[Puma44]

Another important aspect is not coming across as a jerk, which is what tends to happen when you pull answers out of someone inch by inch on a bbs and lack the self awareness to realize your text is coming across as slathered in derision.

See, now we're all learning something

I can see how the jist of my question could be misunderstood, and you certainly did.  The questions were simple in nature to determine if the basics were understood, followed by discussion of the basics, which the subsequent posts are doing a great job of.  Your name calling; unproductive and unnecessary.

[Vudak]

Ah so you're one of those guys who can teach, but can't be taught. Gotcha

You commented on what others can do to improve their teaching, and I gave you similar feedback. Do with it what you want.

[Puma44]

Oh, I'm very teachable, and learn something new every day.  You continue to miss the point though.   

[Vudak]

Not really; I'm letting you know (with the same degree of tact you've shown) what your posts come across as. Not so nice, eh?

There's a better way to say it without alienating your audience.

[FLS]

Not really; I'm letting you know (with the same degree of tact you've shown) what your posts come across as. Not so nice, eh?

There's a better way to say it without alienating your audience.

No. You insulted him. He was just helping people. Now you're lecturing him for lecturing. Make of that what you will.

[Krupinski]

Children, children... Please!

[Vudak]

FLS, I maintain that pulling questions out one by one, putting quotation marks around "teaching" when referring to someone else's posts, and saying things like what I quoted make you come across as a jerk. If he really is merely trying to assist then he should revisit his method as I can guarantee I'm not the only one who had this impression. If he wants to lecture people on how they try to assist then he can deal with my commentary on how he assists.

With that said help and training isn't the place for an argument so now that we've all added our value here, I'll bow out.

[FLS]

Teaching by asking questions is an old well established and effective teaching tool. It does put you on the spot but it's meant to do that.      It may be less comforting but it won't take 10 years to learn proper terminology.   

Please keep comments on topic. 

[TequilaChaser]

In level flight isn't the lift vector 1g? So the magnitude is expressed in radial g and the direction is near perpendicular to the flight path?

What we usually mean when we discuss lift vector is plane of maneuver. Flight path and lift vector direction being the 2 lines that define the plane.

^
^
I was trying to get to this point, but typing on a little "dumbphone" that wants to auto correct everything one types is a headache in of itself.....so I backed up and tried to write it in laymen's terms as short as I possibly could

but as you posted FLS, the Bold Green part above, is most likely what is being discussed or taught prob 90+ % of the time when talking about "Lift Vector"

nice post

TC

[bustr]

Hey Puma, are you the Puma who was a jet combat pilot in the military?

[DmonSlyr]

You can talk to people about terminology all day, but if they have no clue what you are even talking about, it does literally nothing for the new trainee. If you cannot make the writing easier to comprehend than all it does is confuse the trainee. Instead of sounding like a dictionary, use examples, tell them when they should pull such manuevers, and how to utilise than maneuver better. Use examples of planes that perform different types of manuevers better. A person who ask for a little bit of help for them to get better in the MA is going to be incredibly confused trying to read Wikipedia about BFM. If they don't know the terminology from the start than reading about each maneuver will make little sense.  Many things in air combat lead into each other so you have to know the terms from the start or you won't understand any of it. I notice that the trainers can be a bit vague when resorting to situations. There are no such understandings written down that explain how to succeed in different situations in the AH MA. Just mentioning BFM will help them fly their plane more acrobatically but if they cannot percieve what to do with their SA or how to enter/get away from furballs while using those maneuvers than they won't have much luck.

I mentioned the 110 and Nik because they would have been able to pull up much more quickly at 1:57 and it would have spelled disaster for Junky. You have to be able to identify that or explain the use of verticle in that part of the fight if you want them to learn how to utilize the manuevers properly against other planes. Not just pointing out that he needs to use more verticle because that is simply a vague response that could be missunderstood at any point during the fight.

[FLS]

Correct terms are not just better for describing air combat, they are essential for understanding it well enough to talk about it in a useful way for new players.

[Ack-Ack]

You can talk to people about terminology all day, but if they have no clue what you are even talking about, it does literally nothing for the new trainee.

I'm pretty sure that's the point Puma is trying to impress on you about the improper terminology that you are using.  As noted by FLS, it is important for the trainee to know the proper terminology, otherwise it is all for naught.

ack-ack