Get higher frame rates

[RTR]

I'm running an i7 with a GTX960. I am getting a pretty steady frame rate of 60. Have seen it drop to high 40's low 50's near the deck in a busy area. Vsync off I get over 100 fps.

For the one who is running the same vid card, i suspect something else is going on there.

RTR

[Devil 505]

I also have a GTX 960 and my frame rate is not very steady. It's usually in the 50-60 range while at alt, but it drops into the 30s close to the deck and is awful (below 20) near an enemy base/town with ack firing.

[Pudgie]

I can see from the discussion that people are experiencing low frame rates in AH3.  I am also having this problem.  I have a pretty decent rig built by Digital Storm.  Right now I am using an Nvidia GTX GeForce 760 which is superclocked. I run a constant 60 fps in AH2, and have no issues in any other PC games such as the COD Black Ops games, as well as many other on Steam.  However, I am lucky to get 13 fps on AH3.  This cannot possibly be normal, and is clearly an issue since so many others are experiencing the same problem.  I should not have to set the details that low with the system I am running. 

I was in a conversation with a guy last night who is running a GTX 960 and he was getting 11 fps.  This is not normal. That is a beast of a card.

What gives? 

Hello,

If I may ask, how much dedicated video memory does your vid card have onboard? Do you know how many cuda cores your vid card's GPU has enabled, or if any at all, to do the graphical post processing of the Beta to offload the card's GPU? Do you know how much available vid card memory bandwidth your vid card has to effectively handle the increased memory buffer traffic from GPU to memory to display? All this data is important to know to determine if the vid card you currently have is sufficient enough to run the Beta w\ all features turned on....and all vid cards of the same family aren't equipped the same.......

The recommended equipment specs for this Beta haven't been finalized & published yet (most likely will be published on the official launch of AHIII) but it has been suggested that a minimum of 2Gb dedicated vid card memory onboard and GPU is compatible w\ at least Shader 3.x coding be used for the time being to allow for the increased graphics frames quality\size due to the Shader 3.x graphics rendering coding. After this it will be squarely on the GPU's capabilities, especially the amount of cuda cores embedded within the GPU (Shader 3.x coding is designed to use these cuda cores--shader cores if you prefer--to do most\all of the graphics post processing to offload the GPU from having to do these functions along w\ the rest), from reading on the BBS the minimum number of these cores needed onboard to get meaningful GPU performance w\ some\most of the features enabled is estimated to be somewhere around 1000 cores & up available and of course the more memory bandwidth available to smoothly pipe all this from GPU to the memory once created and then to be flipped to the display when called for is desired. I believe the estimated amount is at least 100Gb\sec or faster........ This doesn't cover any other aspects of a computer's components that may also be implicit in seeing poor FPS w\ this Beta, just the vid card estimated specs.

This is geek speak to say that your current video card may not have enough gas in the tank to run the Beta w\o disabling features, if at all.

Even w\ a GeForce 960 vid card the amount of dedicated onboard memory can be an issue as these vid cards come w\ various amounts of onboard memory (some 1Gb, some 2Gb & some 4Gb), not to mention the frequency of said memory (speed) and the total bandwidth available to move all the finished graphics frames around from the GPU to memory buffer to display.

Now what I'm going to say here is more geek speak and some may not agree with but since WinXP (MS Vista & up) these OS's have been upgraded to the PAE specs which will allow a 32-bit vers WinOS to "address" more than 4Gb of memory & the 64-bit vers WinOS can address more than 4Gb of memory by design so the vid card makers have written into their drivers to create a "swap file" in system memory (this is to address vid cards w\ small amounts of onboard memory but this is still done even w\ vid cards that have lots of onboard memory) in which the driver will tell the OS to address the same amount of system memory (if it is free & not being used) as what is onboard the vid card to essentially "double" the "available" amount of graphics memory and if a vid card's GPU has to page out finished graphics frames to this created "swap file" due to the onboard graphics card memory buffer becoming full then flip them from there to display it WILL slow your computer's FPS down. Even worse is if there isn't enough system memory available to create this swap file in system memory it will be created on the HDD, which is even slower than system memory. This is why the amount of onboard vid card memory is more important for AH Beta as AHII graphics frames are generally much less graphic intensive (meaning smaller in size) than the new AH Beta even w\ features disabled so a graphics buffer overrun is less likely to happen w\ AHII vs AH Beta. So the amount of system memory that is being used in a computer along w\ the amount of onboard vid card memory can have some negative effect on overall performance due to what I typed here. From reading of the various memory testing reviews online the minimum amount of system memory to use to alleviate this is 8Gb and up. I haven't brought up the CPU's role in this either as AH Beta is far more harder on vid cards than CPUs but this doesn't leave the CPU's capabilities (or lack of) totally off the hook.........

Not my intention to scare you or make you feel bad or upset you but this type of info needs to be put out here so users can gain a better understanding of what the changes coded into the new AH Beta\upcoming AHIII can impact on various computer equipment being used to play the game......and for others who frequent this BBS to be able to assist you w\ getting the most out of your existing hardware while playing the Beta.

Just trying to be real here as the Beta is still being checked for bugs & anomalies before final release but all issues w\ this Beta aren't associated w\ the software alone and it is not very forthright or fair to use the performance of much older software code on a particular computer to judge the performance of a newer version of the same software that has more advanced code being used in it w\o seriously considering where the hardware is from a capability standpoint that was used w\ the older software to be used to run the newer software on and expecting a similar or better result. Software developers can only make so many tweaks to make newer software to run on older equipment and still deliver the intended graphics looks and performance of the newer features that they wrote into their software so that they can effectively compete for overall user market share dollars.

I know this is nothing new in geek land but it does need to be put out from time to time as a reminder.

To put this in better context, you can't just say that a GTX 960 "should" do better w\o understanding the onboard memory amount on said GTX 960 may not be enough along w\ the amount of cuda cores present on said vers of GTX 960's GPU along w\ the amount of available memory bandwidth to get the most out of said GTX 960 depending on the game software and it's coding to be used. Same goes for the GTX 750 vid card that you have listed as the vid card that you're using in your computer. You got to do the homework & research on the product to be able to determine that........just saying so doesn't "make" it so.

Hopefully a recommended equipment specs list will get published soon to assist users w\ running this game.

 

[Chilli]

Tboy,

Don't feel frustrated.  This is beta and whatever answers you get, I think the best one will be to consider that although you have a very "good" video card and above the minimum requirements, you most likely will have to turn down the graphics and make sure that everything with the computer is "tweaked" properly to give you the "best" result.

In short, currently I don't believe there is an off the shelf video card that won't suffer some degree of fps drop if the game is not properly dialed in.

Dialed in = video card settings, monitor settings, motherboard settings (in some cases), game video settings (from 1st spash screen), then the many, many combinations of graphic detail settings.  Even then, this may change from patch to patch, as HiTech is finding and eliminating memory leaks as well as making more features available as well.

You can start to ease your tension with an attachment of your dxdiag.txt  This is the best way to let someone take a look under the hood, to provide the tune up.

[tboy1972]

Hello,

If I may ask, how much dedicated video memory does your vid card have onboard? Do you know how many cuda cores your vid card's GPU has enabled, or if any at all, to do the graphical post processing of the Beta to offload the card's GPU? Do you know how much available vid card memory bandwidth your vid card has to effectively handle the increased memory buffer traffic from GPU to memory to display? All this data is important to know to determine if the vid card you currently have is sufficient enough to run the Beta w\ all features turned on....and all vid cards of the same family aren't equipped the same.......

The recommended equipment specs for this Beta haven't been finalized & published yet (most likely will be published on the official launch of AHIII) but it has been suggested that a minimum of 2Gb dedicated vid card memory onboard and GPU is compatible w\ at least Shader 3.x coding be used for the time being to allow for the increased graphics frames quality\size due to the Shader 3.x graphics rendering coding. After this it will be squarely on the GPU's capabilities, especially the amount of cuda cores embedded within the GPU (Shader 3.x coding is designed to use these cuda cores--shader cores if you prefer--to do most\all of the graphics post processing to offload the GPU from having to do these functions along w\ the rest), from reading on the BBS the minimum number of these cores needed onboard to get meaningful GPU performance w\ some\most of the features enabled is estimated to be somewhere around 1000 cores & up available and of course the more memory bandwidth available to smoothly pipe all this from GPU to the memory once created and then to be flipped to the display when called for is desired. I believe the estimated amount is at least 100Gb\sec or faster........ This doesn't cover any other aspects of a computer's components that may also be implicit in seeing poor FPS w\ this Beta, just the vid card estimated specs.

This is geek speak to say that your current video card may not have enough gas in the tank to run the Beta w\o disabling features, if at all.

Even w\ a GeForce 960 vid card the amount of dedicated onboard memory can be an issue as these vid cards come w\ various amounts of onboard memory (some 1Gb, some 2Gb & some 4Gb), not to mention the frequency of said memory (speed) and the total bandwidth available to move all the finished graphics frames around from the GPU to memory buffer to display.

Now what I'm going to say here is more geek speak and some may not agree with but since WinXP (MS Vista & up) these OS's have been upgraded to the PAE specs which will allow a 32-bit vers WinOS to "address" more than 4Gb of memory & the 64-bit vers WinOS can address more than 4Gb of memory by design so the vid card makers have written into their drivers to create a "swap file" in system memory (this is to address vid cards w\ small amounts of onboard memory but this is still done even w\ vid cards that have lots of onboard memory) in which the driver will tell the OS to address the same amount of system memory (if it is free & not being used) as what is onboard the vid card to essentially "double" the "available" amount of graphics memory and if a vid card's GPU has to page out finished graphics frames to this created "swap file" due to the onboard graphics card memory buffer becoming full then flip them from there to display it WILL slow your computer's FPS down. Even worse is if there isn't enough system memory available to create this swap file in system memory it will be created on the HDD, which is even slower than system memory. This is why the amount of onboard vid card memory is more important for AH Beta as AHII graphics frames are generally much less graphic intensive (meaning smaller in size) than the new AH Beta even w\ features disabled so a graphics buffer overrun is less likely to happen w\ AHII vs AH Beta. So the amount of system memory that is being used in a computer along w\ the amount of onboard vid card memory can have some negative effect on overall performance due to what I typed here. From reading of the various memory testing reviews online the minimum amount of system memory to use to alleviate this is 8Gb and up. I haven't brought up the CPU's role in this either as AH Beta is far more harder on vid cards than CPUs but this doesn't leave the CPU's capabilities (or lack of) totally off the hook.........

Not my intention to scare you or make you feel bad or upset you but this type of info needs to be put out here so users can gain a better understanding of what the changes coded into the new AH Beta\upcoming AHIII can impact on various computer equipment being used to play the game......and for others who frequent this BBS to be able to assist you w\ getting the most out of your existing hardware while playing the Beta.

Just trying to be real here as the Beta is still being checked for bugs & anomalies before final release but all issues w\ this Beta aren't associated w\ the software alone and it is not very forthright or fair to use the performance of much older software code on a particular computer to judge the performance of a newer version of the same software that has more advanced code being used in it w\o seriously considering where the hardware is from a capability standpoint that was used w\ the older software to be used to run the newer software on and expecting a similar or better result. Software developers can only make so many tweaks to make newer software to run on older equipment and still deliver the intended graphics looks and performance of the newer features that they wrote into their software so that they can effectively compete for overall user market share dollars.

I know this is nothing new in geek land but it does need to be put out from time to time as a reminder.

To put this in better context, you can't just say that a GTX 960 "should" do better w\o understanding the onboard memory amount on said GTX 960 may not be enough along w\ the amount of cuda cores present on said vers of GTX 960's GPU along w\ the amount of available memory bandwidth to get the most out of said GTX 960 depending on the game software and it's coding to be used. Same goes for the GTX 750 vid card that you have listed as the vid card that you're using in your computer. You got to do the homework & research on the product to be able to determine that........just saying so doesn't "make" it so.

Hopefully a recommended equipment specs list will get published soon to assist users w\ running this game.

 

Thanks for replying.  I tried to attach my system info on my GeForce GTX 760 video card.  You are right, there is a lot of information that I need to know, and don't know about the beta.  Hopefully, the attachment will give that. 

So I played AH3 for hours today.  I wrote the post about the frame rates after the first few hours.  Later on, I was getting really decent frame rates.  I had the details set pretty high in the game. Not maxed out, but very high.  I was playing with a consistent 40-60 fps.  I must say, this game is absolutely gorgeous.  The detail is incredible.  Not only does it look incredible, but the audio is absolutely incredible as well.  The audio really adds a lot to the experience. 

I'm really looking forward to all the hours I am going to be putting in playing AH 3.

[Bizman]

If you are playing using default settings, the Environment Map slider is at 1. For those who don't know, here's what it does in layman's terms: The Environment Map makes shiny objects mirror their surroundings. The higher the value, the more often it refreshes the mirrored image. Also, the more objects around you, the more mirroring occurs. That's one reason why flying on the deck and in a crowd causes FPS dropping. Just think about a shiny P51, how many more images it has to mirror on deck compared to the clear blue sky when flying level high over the ocean. The latter doesn't actually need image refreshing at all, thus giving you the best possible frame rate.

On my system I currently get 29 FPS in the Tower using default settings, looking over the desk. Setting the EM slider to 0 I get 33 FPS. Doesn't sound much as such, but doing some calculation says it's almost a 14% increase and 14% is a lot.

[Skuzzy]

I can see from the discussion that people are experiencing low frame rates in AH3.  I am also having this problem.  I have a pretty decent rig built by Digital Storm.  Right now I am using an Nvidia GTX GeForce 760 which is superclocked. I run a constant 60 fps in AH2, and have no issues in any other PC games such as the COD Black Ops games, as well as many other on Steam.  However, I am lucky to get 13 fps on AH3.  This cannot possibly be normal, and is clearly an issue since so many others are experiencing the same problem.  I should not have to set the details that low with the system I am running. 

I was in a conversation with a guy last night who is running a GTX 960 and he was getting 11 fps.  This is not normal. That is a beast of a card.

What gives? 

Are you running with the default graphic settings?  If not, what is the frame rate with default settings?
What resolution are you running the game at?

If you moved the environment map slider beyond "1", then that will kill your frame rates.  Even an NVidia 980Ti can struggle with that setting on full.

[Pudgie]

Thanks for replying.  I tried to attach my system info on my GeForce GTX 760 video card.  You are right, there is a lot of information that I need to know, and don't know about the beta.  Hopefully, the attachment will give that. 

So I played AH3 for hours today.  I wrote the post about the frame rates after the first few hours.  Later on, I was getting really decent frame rates.  I had the details set pretty high in the game. Not maxed out, but very high.  I was playing with a consistent 40-60 fps.  I must say, this game is absolutely gorgeous.  The detail is incredible.  Not only does it look incredible, but the audio is absolutely incredible as well.  The audio really adds a lot to the experience. 

I'm really looking forward to all the hours I am going to be putting in playing AH 3.

Hi tboy,

Thanks for providing the copy of dxdiag.

Could you provide the rest of it that lists the rest of your system as well as that info is also good to see?

The 1 thing that jumps out at me is that you're using Win 10 w\ this box which is using Dx 12 API which is currently using Shader 5.x Modeling code to do post processing graphics features.

The AH Beta is coded to use Dx 9.x API using Shader 3.x Modeling coding. Now w\ this being said, HTC is coding more advanced shader graphical features code into the Shader 3.x Modeling code that the later shader models (Shader 4.x. 5.x & the upcoming 6.x) has features for but not necessarily within the Dx 9.x API (in later Dx API's like Dx 10, Dx 11 & Dx 12) & may not be very backwards compatible w\ the AH Beta using Dx 9.c API and Shader 3.x Model w\ the advanced shader graphics coding of later Shader Model code could be a part of what is causing your system slowdowns, at least by my reasonings.

To date I haven't found anything out on the Internet where this backwards compatibility of Dx 12 to effectively work w\ Dx 9 was tested & verified especially w\ the Shader Modeling code differences (this issue is 1 of the issues that I have a concern about w\ Win 10 myself). MS Dx was "supposed" to be a backwards compatible API by design but there have been too many instances in the past where users had to actually download and install Dx 9.c API to fix issues w\ games coded for Dx 9.x (like AHII & the new AH Beta). I myself haven't upgraded to Win 10 yet & so I don't have 1st hand knowledge about this aspect but there are users on this BBS that are also using Win 10 w\ the Beta that can answer this better than I can so hopefully 1 of them will chime in here to help you out.

It may be just a simple download\install of Dx 9.0c API in Win 10 is needed to clean this up but I can't say for sure.

Skuzzy might can also give some insight on this subject as well the next time he's on this BBS.

Hope this helps you out.

 

[JimmyD3]

I'm not an expert on video cards, but the GTX960 I know is not that hot of a card.

[tboy1972]

Hi tboy,

Thanks for providing the copy of dxdiag.

Could you provide the rest of it that lists the rest of your system as well as that info is also good to see?

The 1 thing that jumps out at me is that you're using Win 10 w\ this box which is using Dx 12 API which is currently using Shader 5.x Modeling code to do post processing graphics features.

The AH Beta is coded to use Dx 9.x API using Shader 3.x Modeling coding. Now w\ this being said, HTC is coding more advanced shader graphical features code into the Shader 3.x Modeling code that the later shader models (Shader 4.x. 5.x & the upcoming 6.x) has features for but not necessarily within the Dx 9.x API (in later Dx API's like Dx 10, Dx 11 & Dx 12) & may not be very backwards compatible w\ the AH Beta using Dx 9.c API and Shader 3.x Model w\ the advanced shader graphics coding of later Shader Model code could be a part of what is causing your system slowdowns, at least by my reasonings.

To date I haven't found anything out on the Internet where this backwards compatibility of Dx 12 to effectively work w\ Dx 9 was tested & verified especially w\ the Shader Modeling code differences (this issue is 1 of the issues that I have a concern about w\ Win 10 myself). MS Dx was "supposed" to be a backwards compatible API by design but there have been too many instances in the past where users had to actually download and install Dx 9.c API to fix issues w\ games coded for Dx 9.x (like AHII & the new AH Beta). I myself haven't upgraded to Win 10 yet & so I don't have 1st hand knowledge about this aspect but there are users on this BBS that are also using Win 10 w\ the Beta that can answer this better than I can so hopefully 1 of them will chime in here to help you out.

It may be just a simple download\install of Dx 9.0c API in Win 10 is needed to clean this up but I can't say for sure.

Skuzzy might can also give some insight on this subject as well the next time he's on this BBS.

Hope this helps you out.

 

Hello, here is my computer info.  Take a look and see what you think.  I appreciate your feedback.  Thanks.

Hello, here is the information in my system.  Take a look and tell me what you think.  I really appreciate your insight. 

[Chilli]

Tboy,

When asking for dxdiag.txt, we are referring to a specific Windows program.  Yes, the nvidia information text was helpful, but as stated before, loads of other information.  The pdf file lead me to believe that you were not familiar with dxdiag, so below is straight from Skuzzy's mouth (or fingers, I guess).

Here are the steps to do this:

1. Go to "Start" from the Windows desktop
2. Select "Run" from the pop up menu
3. In the Run dialog box, type DXDIAG and press <ENTER>
4. After a few seconds the DXDIAG utility will be ready (the progress indicator in the lower left corner will disappear).
5. Run the video and sound diagnostics (Select the Display and Sound tabs to do this).
6. Press the "Save All Information" button
7. This will save the DXDIAG data to a file of your choice

Step 8~ I (ChiLLi) am editing (original post was for email)
8. Once you have done this, simply attach the file to a post for us to look for any issues your system might have.

[Zimme83]

Get rid of the clouds plz. I like the idea but the clouds kills the frame rate.

[Chilli]

Get rid of the clouds plz. I like the idea but the clouds kills the frame rate.

Zimmie,

Killing framerates?  Please, more information, like dxdiag.txt, or actual framerate comparison.  Throughout testing, I must say that the clouds have done little in terms of harming my framerates.

I am sure there IS a frame rate hit, but not so sure that it is drastic enough to deny "everyone" who enjoys them.  Again, if you give more information, like what settings you have and equipment, there may be an answer that helps your system to better tolerate them.

[hgtonyvi]

I'm just wondering why my 980 card can't run the beta on full graphics. Do I need a Nvidia TitanX card??? Lol......all other new PC games that comes out runs really smooth with the card I have and their graphics are awesome. I'm just wondering because in AH2 I have everything maxed out and I get a solid 60frames even when I'm flying FSO with 180 or more planes around. By looking at AH2 graphics and AH3 graphics there isn't much difference to me(this only applies when everything is maxed out on AH2). I think I heard that AH3 only depends on GPU and AH2 is more of both processor and GPU. Can you guys at HTC make AH3 where it depends on both GPU and processor instead of just squeezing the GPU??? I think that would help more players that are complaining about frame rates since I believe they can run AH2 on max graphics with no problem.

[Skuzzy]

The 980 has no problem running with the graphics enabled.

What frame rates are you getting with the "default" settings (press the default button in the Options->Graphic Detail panel)?  What are you changing after that?