Author Topic: Top E Planes (non-perky)  (Read 11455 times)

Offline Randy1

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2016, 07:38:22 AM »
I am surprised no one has mentioned the f4u1a.  No the top but still good.

Offline FLS

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2016, 08:50:48 AM »
I am surprised no one has mentioned the f4u1a.  No the top but still good.

Since the OP is looking for "E retention" the big surprise to me is that nobody mentioned the Brewster. I think all the complaints about E retention the last few years have been about the Brewster but maybe I missed one.

Offline shift8

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2016, 09:06:11 AM »
The even bigger myth of E "retention" is that fighters have different amounts of it when comparing how much is lost during a zoom. There is an entire cult that thinks bricks like the Jug somehow retain E better due to their mass. In a straight line, low drag and high mass do have this effect. But noone ever gets into a zoom by flying in a straight line. Generally speaking, if you take a plane like the Jug and something like a Zero or 109 and put them both into a zoom from the same starting speed and altitude, you will get the same zoom so long as the G pull was the same for both planes and was consistent. This is because the lighter plane expends less E in the transition, but loses it faster once straight due to inertia. By comparison, the fat plane loses more E in the transition, but makes up for it once unloaded.

The other myth is that E fighting is somehow mutually exclusive from turn fighting. As FLS's statements should already imply to everyone, these things are the same. All air combat is E fighting. All air combat is turn and burn. Etc.

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2016, 09:15:03 AM »
A heavy plane with low wing loading and a ton of horse powers should be the best. Just hard to build a plane like that.
My vote go to Spit 14, lot of horses, reasonably low wing loading and not too light.
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Offline Plazus

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2016, 09:33:35 AM »
In theory, any plane in the game has the potential to be a reasonably good energy fighter. In fact, a good energy fighter is a description more suitable for the pilot than the plane. If a pilot can master the art of trading altitude for speed, and speed for altitude (in conjunction with ACM), then that pilot can have success in any plane.

To the OP, I recommend first asking yourself what style of fighting you like the most? Boom 'n Zoom, Turn n' Burn, or something in between?

If you're looking for Boom 'n Zoom, I suggest looking at the P51 or P47.

If you're looking for Turn 'n Burn, I suggest trying the Spitfires (except Mk. 14), Zekes, or Brewsters.

If you're looking for a flexible aircraft that can adapt to the flow of a dogfight, try the P38, Ki84, or F4U.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2016, 09:55:39 AM »
P-38 is one of the better E retainers in the game.

  Especially when I am trying to slow down so I can land.   ;)
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Offline Zoney

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2016, 10:30:59 AM »
In theory, any plane in the game has the potential to be a reasonably good energy fighter. In fact, a good energy fighter is a description more suitable for the pilot than the plane. If a pilot can master the art of trading altitude for speed, and speed for altitude (in conjunction with ACM), then that pilot can have success in any plane.

To the OP, I recommend first asking yourself what style of fighting you like the most? Boom 'n Zoom, Turn n' Burn, or something in between?

If you're looking for Boom 'n Zoom, I suggest looking at the P51 or P47.

If you're looking for Turn 'n Burn, I suggest trying the Spitfires (except Mk. 14), Zekes, or Brewsters.

If you're looking for a flexible aircraft that can adapt to the flow of a dogfight, try the P38, Ki84, or F4U.


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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2016, 12:11:53 PM »

^^^ Obviously not a Luftwaffe pilot ^^^

The P47 and F4us are decent E birds, but I wouldn't call them the best E fighters.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2016, 12:17:50 PM »
I also forgot to mention the La7. Thats a great E bird.

I consider Lift and acceleration to be the 2 most important factors. Roll rate is also a great attribute. A plane like the Spit16 completely dominates a Brew on all levels and can easily out accel and retain E much better.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2016, 01:48:42 PM »
In theory, any plane in the game has the potential to be a reasonably good energy fighter. In fact, a good energy fighter is a description more suitable for the pilot than the plane. If a pilot can master the art of trading altitude for speed, and speed for altitude (in conjunction with ACM), then that pilot can have success in any plane.

Well put, and quite accurate.  "Hamburger is still hamburger, regardless of what you wrap it in".   :salute



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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2016, 01:59:12 PM »
Would that theory hold up in a P40 v Spit16 matchup  :devil
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2016, 06:44:01 PM »
152,
If you put the TA152 in as a good E bird under 10K then you have to put all the P47s to include the D11 in there since that is  probably its closest comparison under 10 K without WEP...with WEP it's performance does climb but it still can't keep up with any of the planes you listed.

It's main advantage is it's ability to dive away at a quick speed, which has to be used as a last option since it won't beat most MA rides in a deck level flight (think the Spit 16 is actually faster on the deck)

F4U IMO is the best MA fighter in the game, you come in CO alt with the tallest enemy at full speed and your in business to do some damage....this includes the -1 which is a monster once it gets there.


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Offline save

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2016, 06:34:16 AM »
the powered sailplane-152 is faster than the spit16, spit8, and also the yak 3, it does not accelerate that good level though.

I agree with Dolby on the Yak3, weight 2 tonnes, can do incredible stunts most planes cannot follow, and take more damage than a B17, not bad !



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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2016, 08:50:09 AM »
The 152 pretty much has to be flown with the BnZ style of fighting. This means it really has to be flown holding as much E as it can. Id consider it an E plane at any alt because it simply cannot perform well without it. It has a great lift ability to rope planes and get up higher using its conserved E. Compared to the P47, it zoom climbs and builds up E more quickly after a manuever. I feel as though it can rope a 47 given the E and situation in a vertical zoom climb. If the P47 gets slower than the 152, the 152 can use its conservative E to get over the top of the 47.

When you look at the 152 compared to the F4U, the 152 has to be able to escape from most planes with its speed and E, or out climb them or else it's pretty much dead meat. The F4U is much more versatile in the fight, but when you are talking about conserving E and utilizing it, the F4U actually doesn't hold it that well. I mean it's better than a lot of planes. But when you get slow with it, it's difficult to gain speed quickly, it doesn't really build up quick speed/ E like the 152 190D or la7 is capable of. If you are fighting low and slow on the deck against a BnZer in a F4u. You are going to have a hard time because it doesn't build up E well enough in some cases to make a good counter punch shot on the overshoot. The F4U and 47 also tend to get slow if you don't fly it in the BnZ style and it's difficult to build up speed. You tend to lose speed getting a shot while the Ta152 would fly off and regain it and try another pass.  It doesn't regain its alt after a dive as well as the 152 or reagin the speed as quickly. I think when it comes to planes that can hold E well it really depends on how quickly they can accelerate, there ability to lift up and away with a strong engine where most planes wouldn't be able to pull up, and the ability to zoom climb better than most. The p38, 152, 190D, P51, and K4, are the types of planes I'm thinking about.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 10:49:46 AM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline Plazus

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Re: Top E Planes (non-perky)
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2016, 10:46:31 AM »

^^^ Obviously not a Luftwaffe pilot ^^^

I didn't mention any Luftwaffe planes because they don't qualify in any of the "roles" I mentioned above... Instead, they belong in this category:



Scrap metal.





 :devil :neener: :bolt:
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