Top E Planes (non-perky)

[Plazus]

In all fairness, the Me109F is a sexy looking bird:



As is the Fw190A5:

[Randy1]

E-retention is what the OP asked for in non perked planes.  It is how the OP defines E retention that matters.

I assume the OP is saying when I dive a plane from a given alt and a given speed, which plane can pull out and return back to the same alt and speed the best in the category of non perked planes.  Drag and horsepower both included.  Correct OP?

[FLS]

I believe E-retention discussions generally involved extended turning.

This thread is a good example of what happens when we don't use proper terminology. 

[DmonSlyr]

There are some planes that utilize Energy fighting better than others. They are generally the late war planes because they have bigger engines and were designed better. I believe that their are planes that hold E better than other planes. This is not just a who can utilize E in their plane better, type of discussion. If you have a La7 Vs P47. The La7 will be able to out manuever and catch the P47 in any given circumstance. It is able to use its quick acceleration and engine performance to out fly the P47 in any circumstance. A plane like a 190D or 109K can retain E better than most planes, which makes them deadly in the verticle vs most heavier and older aircraft. There is simply a huge difference in planes that hold E well compared to ones that dont. A great example is the P51B vs a P51D. No matter what the circumstance is, the P51D should be able to out fly the P51B all day because it is much better at creating an E advantage in the fight.

[icepac]

What about above 33,000 feet?

[shift8]

There are some planes that utilize Energy fighting better than others. They are generally the late war planes because they have bigger engines and were designed better. I believe that their are planes that hold E better than other planes. This is not just a who can utilize E in their plane better, type of discussion. If you have a La7 Vs P47. The La7 will be able to out manuever and catch the P47 in any given circumstance. It is able to use its quick acceleration and engine performance to out fly the P47 in any circumstance. A plane like a 190D or 109K can retain E better than most planes, which makes them deadly in the verticle vs most heavier and older aircraft. There is simply a huge difference in planes that hold E well compared to ones that dont. A great example is the P51B vs a P51D. No matter what the circumstance is, the P51D should be able to out fly the P51B all day because it is much better at creating an E advantage in the fight.

E retention of all planes is more or less the same, presuming we are talking about sustaining E in a unloaded state after a loaded maneauver. Under constant G, the fighter with the better P/W will always have a higher sustained E state, but this isnt really "retention" any more than a fighter with a better sustained turn is has better turn "retention"

[morfiend]

 Which plane is the E fighter,the zero or the spit?




     

[shift8]

Either or. Any fighter can be a E fighter given the circumstances.  Although relative to each other, the Spit is faster, and has a better climb rate. If they both started at the same speed and pulled the same G to get into a zoom, they'd stall out at around the same height. The dangerous thing about the zero though is that due to how light it is, it tends to retain alot of control when other fighters dont, so in relative terms, you can out-E and zero and still be screwed because he can still shoot you going 60mph. But the spit is faster and has better sustained climb, so in absolute tems, its the spit

[morfiend]

 I wasnt comparing ther agaist each other simply asked which was the "E" fighter,which you got correct ...BOTH.... It's not the plane as much as how the pilot flies said plane!

 You are also correct in thinking the zero is a tough little E fighter do to it's low speed control authority! You can get on top and do a low speed luftberry and watch your enemy stall out below you trying to follow!

  The spit with it's superior airspeed should be able to defeat the zero but again it depends on the pilot!


  Who said hamburger is hamburger.......



     

[Oldman731]

The spit with it's superior airspeed should be able to defeat the zero but again it depends on the pilot!


  Who said hamburger is hamburger.......

That would be Puma44.

The AvA used to have Spits v Zekes periodically, ranging from Spit Vs (the old version) v. A6M2s to Spit 8s and 9s v. A6M5.  Uniformly the Spits were toast.

- oldman

[GScholz]

The early models of the Spitfire did everything well compared to its contemporaries. The Zeke as well if we limit the scope to the Pacific theater. Spit vs. Zeke however, the Spit is the better E-fighter. I mean, as late as 1944, tropicalized Spit V's, essentially 1941 vintage planes, were outperforming the latest Zekes.

Generalized, in terms of fighter performance: German > British > American > Soviet > Japanese.

IMHO of course.

[Oldman731]

Spit vs. Zeke however, the Spit is the better E-fighter.

Let me know when you're online, we can try it.

- oldman

[GScholz]

Sure. Good luck...

[shift8]

Just IMHO, but comparing performance using only the main models of planes (ie: models in large numbers in not post mid-44) Id put the nations in this order for the follow criteria.

USA, UK, Germany, Russia, Japan (for all round fighters, if you could only pick one)

Spitfire of course is the best pure fighter, when compared to any contemporary aircraft. Although If I had to pick one plane to equip my entire fighter arm, it would be the P-51.

Speaking purely game however (MA): the best fighter in the game is a contest between the Spit 14, F4U-4, and 109K4. You might add the 51 in there if "usability" characteristics are being considered, like stability in aiming during a dive, or cockpit visability.

[Lusche]

Speaking purely game however (MA): the best fighter in the game is a contest between the Spit 14, F4U-4, and 109K4.

Speaking purely about the MA game, the Spit 14 has no place there (look how horribly it's actually performing in the MA stats). Replace it with the Tempest. Oddly, while being one of the biggest MA dominators since it was introduced, it's hardly ever mentioned.