Author Topic: what do you do?  (Read 4896 times)

Offline JunkyII

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2016, 06:59:52 PM »

  Exactly why you would use a hi yoyo,so you dont overshoot and you can re-orientate your lift vector to put yourself into an attack position.


 Dob's was spot on in his assessment!



    :salute
I wasn't disagreeing...discusding....w hat I find most often is people do too much of a high yo yo to the point where the lower guy can pull vertical against them because they have co equalized which is not god to do in BnZ...you should always have the advantage if you are BnZing someone....which means you have to maintain it.
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Offline nickel5

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2016, 07:05:35 PM »
I used to (haven't played in over a year) let them have my 6 then I would blast them when they got too close. Of course I was flying in my opinion the best bird in the game (Ar234)         
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Offline JimmyC

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2016, 09:55:09 PM »
I wiggle my butt and say c`mon bigboy..
then they get a surprise!
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Offline mutha

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2016, 10:54:50 PM »
If he heads in my direction I  turn tail and run and immediately call any friendlies to come clear me. I make this call when the enemy closes in to one sector.

If he get within 5000 I head to the deck, making a keening, high-pitched panic sound; kind of a cross between crying and whining. I will look for a friendly goon or storch to fly by and dip my wing to indicate an easier kill.

If he still keeps coming I usually start making a blubbering, sobbing sound and evacuate my bowels. I will drop gear in an international sign of surrender while whispering "oh pleasepleaseplease..."

If I make it to friendly cover and he runs I will give chase with my countrymen and call him out on ch200 for being a wimp.

Then I'll do laundry.

Mutha


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Offline Hartmann

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2016, 03:51:50 PM »
See Rule #6
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 02:32:52 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline Dawger

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2016, 04:08:57 PM »
I wasn't disagreeing...discusding....w hat I find most often is people do too much of a high yo yo to the point where the lower guy can pull vertical against them because they have co equalized which is not god to do in BnZ...you should always have the advantage if you are BnZing someone....which means you have to maintain it.

Thats not a high yo yo you are describing.

The High Yo Yo is initiated from a position on the bandit's turn circle in his rear hemisphere. All you are doing is altering the shape of your turn circle and moving it out of plane from the bandit turn in order to reduce closure. As soon as you have solved the closure problem you put the lift vector in lead on the bandit (roll to point the lift vector in front of the bandit velocity vector) and pull. This brings your velocity vector back to lag pursuit on the bandit turn circle in the control position. If the bandit is low energy at this point, you can probably pull lead for a shot.

What you are describing is someone coming off an attack prior to reach the bandit turn circle and zooming high, allowing the defender to execute a nose high lag roll back into offensive position due to an excessively high angle/high G zoom

Offline morfiend

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2016, 04:18:27 PM »
You could always use a lag displacement roll instead of the hi yo-yo,this would not allow the enemy to get his nose anywhere near you!

  Ah but thats another discussion for another time! :devil



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Offline puller

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2016, 04:19:07 PM »
I just shut Hartmann up....next man up Air Raiders!!!

List 10 names...I can list 10 who are good matchups in there....let's see how knowledgeable you are about where the skill is in the community...



  :rofl  :rofl  :aok
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2016, 05:34:59 PM »
The High Yo Yo is initiated from a position on the bandit's turn circle in his rear hemisphere. All you are doing is altering the shape of your turn circle and moving it out of plane from the bandit turn in order to reduce closure. As soon as you have solved the closure problem you put the lift vector in lead on the bandit (roll to point the lift vector in front of the bandit velocity vector) and pull. This brings your velocity vector back to lag pursuit on the bandit turn circle in the control position. If the bandit is low energy at this point, you can probably pull lead for a shot.

Dawger is spot on (once again) with an excellent description of a High Yo-Yo, it's purpose and execution, particularly the mention of lift-vector placement (which is so often overlooked for a relatively simple concept).   :aok

The important point being, if the attacker is not immediately re-engaging (either for a shot or to force another E-depleting defensive maneuver) then it is not really a High Yo-Yo.  So, Junky, your point about the High Yo-Yo not being performed right may be true, because they probably aren't really performing a High Yo-Yo.

When I am the low defender, recognizing an aggressive High Yo-Yo is one of my primary means of assessing the skill-level of an opponent:

If an attacker simply climbs away after my defensive turn, the "one-pass wonder", then I know I am likely facing a less-skilled opponent.  In this case I may bait them into attacking again and generally be more aggressive.

If an attacker performs a High Yo-Yo after the first pass, then I am more concerned, especially if they maintain E and avoid my reversal shots.  Then I know the opponent is more skilled, so I am more likely to use extensions (if possible), trying to equalize E for a scissors fight or looking for a way out, depending on relative aircraft performance.

This also answers the OP's question (what do you do?) with the answer I usually give: It depends -- mostly upon what the opponent does but also on a number of other factors.

 :salute
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 06:42:02 PM by Kingpin »
Quote from: bozon
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2016, 06:29:56 PM »
I wiggle my butt and say c`mon bigboy..
then they get a surprise!

you fart in their faces?


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline JunkyII

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2016, 07:30:03 PM »
  :rofl  :rofl  :aok
Think I'm crazy or whatever but I'll wait for that list...my point stands...skill level of the MA is way down from where it used to be. LOL people think the air raiders are like AoM and the BKs used to be :rofl I'm not sure if anyone in your squad could beat me in a set 1v1 setup...cmex really is the only one I'm not 100% sure about but without the minions around and no HOs...things change quick, never have dueled him....but funny thing is I consider him in the top 10 in game too....there used to be like 4-5 in AoM I knew I couldn't beat at least(then there was the B team :devil )....but you keep laughing, I don't know anything about the dog fighting community here in Aces high :rolleyes:

Thats not a high yo yo you are describing.

The High Yo Yo is initiated from a position on the bandit's turn circle in his rear hemisphere. All you are doing is altering the shape of your turn circle and moving it out of plane from the bandit turn in order to reduce closure. As soon as you have solved the closure problem you put the lift vector in lead on the bandit (roll to point the lift vector in front of the bandit velocity vector) and pull. This brings your velocity vector back to lag pursuit on the bandit turn circle in the control position. If the bandit is low energy at this point, you can probably pull lead for a shot.

What you are describing is someone coming off an attack prior to reach the bandit turn circle and zooming high, allowing the defender to execute a nose high lag roll back into offensive position due to an excessively high angle/high G zoom
With all due respect I am describing a high yo yo but I'm not good at explaining with text :aok

Dawger is spot on (once again) with an excellent description of a High Yo-Yo, it's purpose and execution, particularly the mention of lift-vector placement (which is so often overlooked for a relatively simple concept).   :aok

The important point being, if the attacker is not immediately re-engaging (either for a shot or to force another E-depleting defensive maneuver) then it is not really a High Yo-Yo.  So, Junky, your point about the High Yo-Yo not being performed right may be true, because they probably aren't really performing a High Yo-Yo.

When I am the low defender, recognizing an aggressive High Yo-Yo is one of my primary means of assessing the skill-level of an opponent:

If an attacker simply climbs away after my defensive turn, the "one-pass wonder", then I know I am likely facing a less-skilled opponent.  In this case I may bait them into attacking again and generally be more aggressive.

If an attacker performs a High Yo-Yo after the first pass, then I am more concerned, especially if they maintain E and avoid my reversal shots.  Then I know the opponent is more skilled, so I am more likely to use extensions (if possible), trying to equalize E for a scissors fight or looking for a way out, depending on relative aircraft performance.

This also answers the OP's question (what do you do?) with the answer I usually give: It depends -- mostly upon what the opponent does but also on a number of other factors.

 :salute

They are doing EXACTLY what you are saying you get nervous about...I'm saying that person is often not aggressive enough with their attacks...where they do a high yo yo and I can almost extend away....they need to make me the defender lose E or else they are risking me being able to turn into the vertical with them which I do often these days....because people dont perform high yo yos correctly....it almost resets them BEFORE they attempt a pass...which is just equalizing the fight without giving the attacker a shot opportunity.

I'm going to stop by the TA and show you what I'm talking about or film it next time it happens in the MA and bring it here.
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Offline Gooss

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2016, 07:57:16 PM »
A single fighter is over your head.  What do you do?

This is before I even make a single pass. 

Why won't someone fight you when they have a disadvantage?  Why do you need that much of an advantage?  Fly lower.
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2016, 08:59:32 PM »
They are doing EXACTLY what you are saying you get nervous about...I'm saying that person is often not aggressive enough

The people I am more concerned with ARE the aggressive ones.  They can keep the pressure on and bleed my E while avoiding being reversed by using the high yo-yo correctly.  I think we are in agreement there.

My point of posting was not to "correct" what you were saying, but rather to clarify what a high yo-yo is and its purpose -- for the benefit of others who may be reading this.

Doing a high yo-yo "wrong", with the wrong timing or angles, or even to the extent that it isn't really a high yo-yo, can be kind of a gray area, so we might be saying basically the same thing.


I'm going to stop by the TA and show you what I'm talking about or film it next time it happens in the MA and bring it here.

Please do.  Films are much clearer ways to provide examples than either of us typing back and forth, regardless of how well we can describe ACM.   :)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 09:04:30 PM by Kingpin »
Quote from: bozon
For those of us playing this game for well over a decade, Aces High is more of a social club. The game just provides the framework. I keep logging in for the people and Pipz was the kind that you keep coming to meet again.

Offline JunkyII

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2016, 09:17:14 PM »
The people I am more concerned with ARE the aggressive ones.  They can keep the pressure on and bleed my E while avoiding being reversed by using the high yo-yo correctly.  I think we are in agreement there.

My point of posting was not to "correct" what you were saying, but rather to clarify what a high yo-yo is and its purpose -- for the benefit of others who may be reading this.

Doing a high yo-yo "wrong", with the wrong timing or angles, or even to the extent that it isn't really a high yo-yo, can be kind of a gray area, so we might be saying basically the same thing.

Please do.  Films are much clearer ways to provide examples than either of us typing back and forth, regardless of how well we can describe ACM.   :)
Just got a film of the exact situation editing it into a youtube video now :aok
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: what do you do?
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2016, 09:48:15 PM »
Just got a film of the exact situation editing it into a youtube video now :aok

AH Film in the films section is better, if you don't mind editing it down and posting it there.  Watching things in the AH Film Viewer allows people to see it from multiple angles; external, attacker, defender, plus the use of trails, which makes it far more useful.

 :salute
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 09:49:49 PM by Kingpin »
Quote from: bozon
For those of us playing this game for well over a decade, Aces High is more of a social club. The game just provides the framework. I keep logging in for the people and Pipz was the kind that you keep coming to meet again.