If you consider yourself a Top Stick in the game...

[Cobra412uf]

DmonSlyr back a long time ago in tours 58 and 59 I attempted to see how much of a difference it would make by changing from my standard ride the P-51D to a P-40E. Still fought against the same uber planes and racked up a similar kill to death ratio as flying the P-51D. The funny part was my ranking was still lower with 495 kills and 188 deaths in the P-40E and ranked 32nd in fighters compared to the 496 kills to 103 deaths in the P-51D and ranked 5th in fighters. To each their own just have fun. I got burnt out because I was too competitive and worried too much about what others thought. People should just have fun and ignore the negative nancys.

[SPKmes]

Man you guys are going on about planes dogfighting and which is better...for me with the examples used the F4U in the right hands is ultimate....Ki84 is for those who don't want the stigma of using a spit16 so the Ki is far more user friendly...this thread is about the fact that they aren't dogfighting...damn man...A6M's are freakin BnZing....  in out....friend will follow and clear ...and his other two friends will just make sure...if you look like you are going to reverse them.....oh boys...climb climb climb...Phew...that was a close one aye boys.........new hard deck rule....no getting below 1k above the highest red guy...unless reaching atleast Mach 1 on the way down...

[TheBug]

Maybe we should  make a special arena for those that "consider themselves a Top Stick" so they can hash it out in there.

 

[TequilaChaser]

Maybe we should  make a special arena for those that "consider themselves a Top Stick" so they can hash it out in there.

 

Or give them their own forum at least...

You could call the forum: "My Kung Fu is Better than Your Kung Fu"

Hehe

TC

[The Fugitive]

Man you guys are going on about planes dogfighting and which is better...for me with the examples used the F4U in the right hands is ultimate....Ki84 is for those who don't want the stigma of using a spit16 so the Ki is far more user friendly...this thread is about the fact that they aren't dogfighting...damn man...A6M's are freakin BnZing....  in out....friend will follow and clear ...and his other two friends will just make sure...if you look like you are going to reverse them.....oh boys...climb climb climb...Phew...that was a close one aye boys.........new hard deck rule....no getting below 1k above the highest red guy...unless reaching atleast Mach 1 on the way down...

I understand what your saying, and I see the same things. Guys like Toxiin picking and running until he can turn back and pick some more. It is "how the game is played" these days. Is it a good thing..... I dont think so. This game has lost a lot of the combat aspect. I was at the fight that you blew up on at the field on the coast with our CV there. I was one of the P47 BnZin, tho we did get low and slow now and then. I like a good fight and have had many against you. That fight was full dar vs full dar. Had I slowed to fight your Ki61 we wouldnt have had a fight, I would have been picked by the 3 la's and spit16 that were coming in.

Gone are the days of calling a guy off so you can finish a 1 vs 1. Gone are the days of fighting head to head, be it plane GV or team against team for a base. Gone is any kind of strategy for attacks. Now it is HO, pick and running. Gang the the few defenders, heaven forbid you put your self in danger of taking any damage.

I thought the fight we had Saturday was ok, had some fun and got a few fights when I could drag a guy out. Did I BnZ? yup, did I extend.... when I had 4 chasing me.....yup. Dig I clear my squadies 6..... when I could.... yup. But you defenders had the same options as we did. up at the close field..... cv in our case... and be low and attack, or up a sector back and come in with some alt and speed. Jugs love the wind rippling across them and so most of our guys came in higher. At least we fought it out. I know its frustrating to try and catch ANYTHING in a KI61, but it is the plane you chose, as well as the type of fight you did. It is going to come with those frustrations. I think that fight was the highlight of my day in the game. The rest of the time we were getting jumped by 262s and other pickers who did nothing but run, so I feel your pain.

I complained for years quite loudly about players doing nothing but HOin. Hoping to change there ways by shaming them. I was told to tone it down and accept that this is how the game is played now. I still complain, but nothing like I did in the old days. If this is how the game is to be played, then that is how I will continue to play it...... until they close the doors. Hopefully not too soon. 

[SPKmes]

edited as it was a waste of time...



No ill will toward you Fugi... What you guys were doing was actual squad tactics

[nrshida]

No it isn't KI-84 is.

I might give it a try. 

[JunkyII]

Here's the one thing that fail the KI84, 109, Spitfire, ect ect....yes they are good in a 1v1 situation and they manuever well. But the area where they lack manuevering is at high speed...

Merging with a KI84 above 360 IAS is a NO GO  because at that speed it's initial merge is more like a 190F8...which is easy for even a TA152 to out turn, which is where most people don't understand when they see someone turn fighting in a plane like a P51/TA/Mossy or dora they play that high speed turn game to set up angles.

The F4U....exceeds at both high and low speed. It's only area it falls short is acceleration and climb rate. Those 2 can be removed as factors in the MA by ALWAYS flying from the advantage....which a lot of dedicated Hog pilots do and get called TOP Sticks but look like chumps in a 1v1....

In a 1v1 the hog is heavy and fast enough to hold co alt with any prop plane in merge, and at the top when both planes are out of energy....who's going to win??? The Hog who can turn on a dime with full flaps....or the KI84/109 who will need to regain energy to get to it's advantage....and which point the HOG is already in position. I've seen it hundreds of time from both ends, the hog is just a monster.


Don't get me started on the Brewster....where people have an argument where the F4U can be tricky to fly because of the torque related stalls the Brew is like the RV8 but faster and somehow climbs like a beast while having on charts....a terrible climb rate.

Fess,
No your good man, I've had 1v1s with you where you came at me without alt or energy on me.

And the main point I was trying to make is be concious to the players who aren't good in fighters, I know it won't happen 100% of the time but there definitely is a lot of people staying away from the air combat side of the game because they are getting beat up all the time...so they end up in M3s and man guns ect ect.

[999000]

I once went to the dueling arena with B17's.....one guy didn't find it amusing.....<S> ALL.

[Shuffler]

The 80th used to meet the Muppets off the map in 24s or 17s to dogfight. That was a lot of fun back in those days.

[Mister Fork]

[Ki84vsF4U-4]In a long sustained gunfight, as long as the F4U maintains energy and speed advantage, they'll win the fight with a Ki-84. If they try and turn with it - it doesn't usually end well for the Corsair.

The problem Junky - with no flaps and at a 200-300 mph turn fight, the Ki-84 will eat up the F4U.

Comparing the Ki-84 and the F4U-4 is like comparing a oval racer with a track car. Both can go on the track, cept the track car is meant for turns every day and the other for going faster in straighter lines.  A Nascar CAN go on a track, but it likes the ovals better.[/comparison off]

Junky - back to the topic at hand...this game really hasn't changed much from I've seen in the past 17 years since go live. You're always going to have those who'll mix it up regardless. 4vs1?  4vs4 - 10vs10, 7vs1. Some will die right away at a field being vulch and up again right away.  And for a lot of players, it's about getting in the air or in a tank on the ground, engaging targets attacking your field or your carrier. Chatting it up with friends - shouting out check six calls, coordinating incoming targets...etc etc. Aces High 101...no?

And there are some will engage only if they can win. Score-**ores. you know the type - the ones you ranted about. Fly along high. Sniping on the unexpecting. Carrying on with their perfect score. Landing a couple kills every 20 minutes or so. They probably also get manicures not to get their nails damaged.  They're not good sticks. Their wusses. Those are the ones who are annoying right?

And then Junky - you have to admit. There are some - regardless of the situation, the ones who wear the funny hats. The sharks in sheeple clothing. They'll enter a furball, and blow everything up in front of them - clear sixes. Give check-six calls and help out a ganged pilot. And then land or 7-8 kills. Or not - maybe they'll just rearm and get up again. They're so bloody good and accurate in their shooting and expert dog fighters that they're kinda scary. You cannot lump them with the 'top sticks' game. They don't care if they live or die when entering a furball. Razer & Lazer, Odee, Frency, Gman, TheBug, Bear, Bruv119... those guys are different ...with funny hats.

[DmonSlyr]

[Ki84vsF4U-4]In a long sustained gunfight, as long as the F4U maintains energy and speed advantage, they'll win the fight with a Ki-84. If they try and turn with it - it doesn't usually end well for the Corsair.

The problem Junky - with no flaps and at a 200-300 mph turn fight, the Ki-84 will eat up the F4U.

Comparing the Ki-84 and the F4U-4 is like comparing a oval racer with a track car. Both can go on the track, cept the track car is meant for turns every day and the other for going faster in straighter lines.  A Nascar CAN go on a track, but it likes the ovals better.[/comparison off]

Junky - back to the topic at hand...this game really hasn't changed much from I've seen in the past 17 years since go live. You're always going to have those who'll mix it up regardless. 4vs1?  4vs4 - 10vs10, 7vs1. Some will die right away at a field being vulch and up again right away.  And for a lot of players, it's about getting in the air or in a tank on the ground, engaging targets attacking your field or your carrier. Chatting it up with friends - shouting out check six calls, coordinating incoming targets...etc etc. Aces High 101...no?

And there are some will engage only if they can win. Score-**ores. you know the type - the ones you ranted about. Fly along high. Sniping on the unexpecting. Carrying on with their perfect score. Landing a couple kills every 20 minutes or so. They probably also get manicures not to get their nails damaged.  They're not good sticks. Their wusses. Those are the ones who are annoying right?

And then Junky - you have to admit. There are some - regardless of the situation, the ones who wear the funny hats. The sharks in sheeple clothing. They'll enter a furball, and blow everything up in front of them - clear sixes. Give check-six calls and help out a ganged pilot. And then land or 7-8 kills. Or not - maybe they'll just rearm and get up again. They're so bloody good and accurate in their shooting and expert dog fighters that they're kinda scary. You cannot lump them with the 'top sticks' game. They don't care if they live or die when entering a furball. Razer & Lazer, Odee, Frency, Gman, TheBug, Bear, Bruv119... those guys are different ...with funny hats.

Any F4U besides maybe the -1, but even still, will out Maneuver a Ki84 in a 1v1. I've actually proved this before, fighting very good opponents. The MA is a bit different because of initial merge setups and speeds. The F4U has a better lift and roll around than the Ki84, and can still hang in a climb almost as well as the Ki84. The Ki84 is just easier to fly, and that's why people think it can win 1v1 vs a f4U. The F4U in the MA have to fly high alt or higher than enimies or you are pretty much flying it wrong and can get picked and ganged very easily. The F4U is a much easier plane to gang, and is much less reliable on the deck than the Ki84. That's why the Ki84 is a defense plane while the F4U is an attack plane. Most of the time, a Ki84 pilot will beat the F4U pilot in the 1v1, simply because the F4U pilot isn't as up to par as one should be in the F4U, and it's a more challenging plane to hold steady in a 1v1.

Most people think score is about K/D, so they fly super timidly and still don't even score that well, that's not how you really play for score. I die almost 50% of the time, in most cases, becuase I like to get down n dirty and actually get kills, if I can rack up 4-5 kills before I die. Dying doesn't really matter, I still score better than timid flyers who get 1 to 2 kills a sortie and waste all their gas extending from fights and being timid. Most people just haven't played long enough to really understand the dynamics of score.

[Becinhu]

I'm a top stick.....my stick sits on top of the desk when I play.


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[SlipKnt]

What is so unnerving to me is I look at the names in this thread and have come to realize, there are some REALLY good sticks in here.  Some I have rarely ever shot down...

YIKES!!!

 

[Canspec]

I might give it a try. 

Shida is back