What is Vehicle quadrant??

[Copprhed]

Yet you think it is appropriate "gameplay" to sit for hours making an artificial alert, that wouldn't have existed in RL, flash a base while complaining about someone being able to find and KILL you. Sir, this is the absolute definition of hypocrisy.

[hitech]

Thanks to all this bickering, HiTech has gone and turned the thing off, except in gv's which he didn't really design it for and I for one would like to help him realize his goal when he created it. I don't want a directional indicator of my position, but something that increases interaction would be good.

The change was designed PRIMARILY for gv v gv play. But it will change to a sector ( size of sector to be determined) based system in the next attempt.

HiTech

[Vinkman]

So far I'm with Lusche on this one. A few thoughts...

We talk about "engaging in combat", but then reject hunting of a stealthy Gv as "combat". Be careful not define combat as "firing my weapon at something". To Lusche's point there has to be a balance between a fire-fight and strategy. Things that speed up the frequency of fire-fights, do so at the expense of strategy. Over do it and you end up with button smashing game of who has the quickest reflexes.

I think Kilroy and Lusche are making the point that the first attempt did too much to speed up fire-fights. It sounds like HiTech agreed and is working on a better solution.

"When am I going to learn how to fight?"  - Daniel
"First...Must learn Balance, Daniel-san" - Mr. Miyagi

[Krusty]

Hitech, I think that making it find those people that are borderline griefers is exactly what we need. They kill action and momentum more than most other things in the game. I would say having a way to locate them is not only practical but promotes actual movement, action, and reflects historical realities of WW2. You shouldn't be able to disrupt and grief an entire sector's population of map with little or no effort or risk.

The vocal whiner minority shouldn't be coddled that much. There needs to be balance.

[+Kilroy+]

Yet you think it is appropriate "gameplay" to sit for hours making an artificial alert, that wouldn't have existed in RL, flash a base while complaining about someone being able to find and KILL you. Sir, this is the absolute definition of hypocrisy.

This is not on topic, it is a personal attack. I go to fields to attack. If there is an alert and you search me, I will most definitely hide. At that point, it is your determination whether to stall your game, whether to call the alert artificial, because enemy units did most definitely populate areas where allies did not want them. At times they were tolerated and others they were rooted out. Blaming me for your uncertainty, leads me to believe you should not call me "sir" unless you are sincere.

They kill action and momentum more than most other things in the game.

This sounds like a feeling. How does Cybro, for example, kill action and momentum? He makes a regular practice of populating enemy dar rings specifically to give the impression of an attack. The "whiner minority" already got his barns removed and I see no reason to restrict his poor demented gameplay any further. He certainly doesn't distract me and I can say this from the perspective of an affected enemy. You would want to express your position from an awareness of these factors.

I would say having a way to locate them is not only practical but promotes actual movement, action, and reflects historical realities of WW2. You shouldn't be able to disrupt and grief an entire sector's population of map with little or no effort or risk.

Historical realities like; camouflage netting, disguised production facilities, false markings, etc. Here's some historical action:



And there is plenty more where that came from. Iwo Jima anyone?

The vocal whiner minority shouldn't be coddled that much. There needs to be balance.

The alternative being pandering to the silent albeit unknown majority?

The change was designed PRIMARILY for gv v gv play. But it will change to a sector ( size of sector to be determined) based system in the next attempt.

HiTech

I can offer that I really like being able to check from the tower for gv presence. I think that is good and promotes what you intend. I also like the idea of some form of directionality to it, just not a telltale that supplants leaned skills already available. The guy in the Jag may be a quick learner, but he had no business out there with that rig, in terms of historical realities.

[waystin2]

[asterix]

This sounds like a feeling. How does Cybro, for example, kill action and momentum? He makes a regular practice of populating enemy dar rings specifically to give the impression of an attack. The "whiner minority" already got his barns removed and I see no reason to restrict his poor demented gameplay any further. He certainly doesn't distract me and I can say this from the perspective of an affected enemy. You would want to express your position from an awareness of these factors.

I have the impression that Cybro populates friendly dar rings by sitting on ground in a fighter. Previously he was in hangars a lot, often with a running engine so you could not hear enemy GVs coming. Now I have seen him sitting in forest away from bases. He populates enemy dar ring because bases are captured IMHO.

[EagleDNY]

I still think base and town flashing was plenty of indication that a GV was around - it was quite simple to just up a Storch and find him, and then point him out to your GV or bombing buddies that were hunting for him.   If anything, I think the vehicle quadrant makes the spotting cooperation worthless. 
The only problem I have with bushes and leaves is that they prevent large caliber tank shells from actually hitting the target.  Hide there all you want, but when somebody sees your outline through an orange bush and lobs an 88 your way, it shouldn't be stopped by the indestructable bush. 

[Devil 505]

Hitech, I think that making it find those people that are borderline griefers is exactly what we need. They kill action and momentum more than most other things in the game. I would say having a way to locate them is not only practical but promotes actual movement, action, and reflects historical realities of WW2. You shouldn't be able to disrupt and grief an entire sector's population of map with little or no effort or risk.

The vocal whiner minority shouldn't be coddled that much. There needs to be balance.

Truth.

[nrshida]

[TDeacon]

The change was designed PRIMARILY for gv v gv play. But it will change to a sector ( size of sector to be determined) based system in the next attempt.

HiTech

HiTech:

WRT GV-versus-GV, couldn't you obtain a similar result by moving moving away from flat terrains?  The ability to go for altitude in order to see over intervening terrain, combined with the existing sound detection mechanisms, used to work quite well for me back in the days of AH2. 

This is more difficult now (even on non-flat terrains), partly because the AH3 terrains often have that rocky / cactus texture (?) which reduces speed by half (which I assume is intended to keep everyone on the flat), and partly because of the higher vegetation density blocking the view (except, perversely, on the slopes / hills themselves).  Choosing an appropriate hill, and an appropriate position on the hill used to provide a lot of additional game play opportunities.  For example, one's initial thought was to go to the highest point.  It was then quickly discovered that LOS (line-of-sight) worked both ways, frequently resulting in death.  The next level of tactical sophistication was to pick a point on the elevation where LOS exists only to the target (around the side of the top of the hill or in a saddle), etc.  If the target was killed, one then had to maneuver futher to line up the next.  Going for alt like this also frequently induced opposing GVs to pursue, resulting in further interesting maneuvering and combat on and around the hilly areas. 

I always preferred that maneuvering style of GV play to spawn camping. 

MH

EDIT:  For the above concept to work, you need a reasonable number of "crests" on the terrain, where a small amount of forward-back movement allows full defilade to hull defilade to fully exposed.  Some of the newer AH3 terrains have overly gradual transitions on the hills, to the exclusion of the above. 

[JimmyD3]

IMHO ,the Red/Green "End Sortie" was the last great addition to the GV combat environment. As far as locating the enemy, sound is the best indicator, don't need the quadrant. Can't find my tank?? That is part of the Cat/Mouse game we all play, its no different than NOE raids on undefended bases. In WW2 missions had specific goals, some were merely taking photographs, some were Fighter sweeps, some were the capture of strategic targets, in all cases the goal was to avoid detection as long as possible, thus increasing the chance of success.

All this whining about not being able to "see" gv's in the trees, is just that, a whine. Many of you extol the virtue "In Real Life they....", well in real life gv's hid from ground attack aircraft as much as possible, aircraft had no "icon" to show them their location. While I don't know for sure ( Lusche probably has the data) I would suspect the number of GV's killed by aircraft and the number of aircraft killed by gv's, up to now, has not changed from AH2 to AH3.

I believe Kilroy has brought up some valid points, when it comes to gving, he certainly has the credentials. For me personally, when I can get a "Kilroy kill", its always a GREAT day. 

[+Kilroy+]

Pilot's posting on a GV thread:

[memegenerator image]

Truth.

[youtube]

Clips and quips.

GVer's posting on a GV thread:

I have the impression that Cybro populates friendly dar rings by sitting on ground in a fighter. Previously he was in hangars a lot, often with a running engine so you could not hear enemy GVs coming. Now I have seen him sitting in forest away from bases. He populates enemy dar ring because bases are captured IMHO.

I still think base and town flashing was plenty of indication that a GV was around - it was quite simple to just up a Storch and find him, and then point him out to your GV or bombing buddies that were hunting for him.   If anything, I think the vehicle quadrant makes the spotting cooperation worthless. 
The only problem I have with bushes and leaves is that they prevent large caliber tank shells from actually hitting the target.  Hide there all you want, but when somebody sees your outline through an orange bush and lobs an 88 your way, it shouldn't be stopped by the indestructable bush.

HiTech:

WRT GV-versus-GV, couldn't you obtain a similar result by moving moving away from flat terrains?  The ability to go for altitude in order to see over intervening terrain, combined with the existing sound detection mechanisms, used to work quite well for me back in the days of AH2. 

This is more difficult now (even on non-flat terrains), partly because the AH3 terrains often have that rocky / cactus texture (?) which reduces speed by half (which I assume is intended to keep everyone on the flat), and partly because of the higher vegetation density blocking the view (except, perversely, on the slopes / hills themselves).  Choosing an appropriate hill, and an appropriate position on the hill used to provide a lot of additional game play opportunities.  For example, one's initial thought was to go to the highest point.  It was then quickly discovered that LOS (line-of-sight) worked both ways, frequently resulting in death.  The next level of tactical sophistication was to pick a point on the elevation where LOS exists only to the target (around the side of the top of the hill or in a saddle), etc.  If the target was killed, one then had to maneuver futher to line up the next.  Going for alt like this also frequently induced opposing GVs to pursue, resulting in further interesting maneuvering and combat on and around the hilly areas. 

I always preferred that maneuvering style of GV play to spawn camping. 

MH

EDIT:  For the above concept to work, you need a reasonable number of "crests" on the terrain, where a small amount of forward-back movement allows full defilade to hull defilade to fully exposed.  Some of the newer AH3 terrains have overly gradual transitions on the hills, to the exclusion of the above.

IMHO ,the Red/Green "End Sortie" was the last great addition to the GV combat environment. As far as locating the enemy, sound is the best indicator, don't need the quadrant. Can't find my tank?? That is part of the Cat/Mouse game we all play, its no different than NOE raids on undefended bases. In WW2 missions had specific goals, some were merely taking photographs, some were Fighter sweeps, some were the capture of strategic targets, in all cases the goal was to avoid detection as long as possible, thus increasing the chance of success.

All this whining about not being able to "see" gv's in the trees, is just that, a whine. Many of you extol the virtue "In Real Life they....", well in real life gv's hid from ground attack aircraft as much as possible, aircraft had no "icon" to show them their location. While I don't know for sure ( Lusche probably has the data) I would suspect the number of GV's killed by aircraft and the number of aircraft killed by gv's, up to now, has not changed from AH2 to AH3.

I believe Kilroy has brought up some valid points, when it comes to gving, he certainly has the credentials. For me personally, when I can get a "Kilroy kill", its always a GREAT day. 

Thoughtful analysis and reasoned statements.

Could this define some fundamental connection between depth of character and preferred play modes?

[horble]

Pilot's posting on a GV thread:

Clips and quips.

GVer's posting on a GV thread:

Thoughtful analysis and reasoned statements.

Could this define some fundamental connection between depth of character and preferred play modes?

No.

[+Kilroy+]

No.

I wonder if that is because you type exactly like a pilot. Maybe if you didn't hang that big ugly IL2 in my pipper quite so often, you'd feel less vengeful.