Why so much animosity?

[madrid311]

The animosity is almost amusing.  One GV proponent claims they just want a chance to reach their objective undetected.  That seems to counterproductive to what GV dar, and this game in general, is supposed to be about.  That's my opinion at least.  But to each his own.  If that is what he calls fun and he enjoys, I hope he finds a way to achieve that. 
The animosity I've seen in almost every thread on this subject appears to be coming from the GV crowd.  "Bomb****s" is the favorite term to use.  Haven't seen a lot of derogatory comments from the aircraft guys, mainly comments on the GV guys hiding and evading contact.
My very oversimplified suggestion is:  If you don't want the "bomb****s" coming after you and trying to kill you, stay away from the air bases.  Stick to attacking GV bases.  You will still probably see aircraft coming in and trying to kill you, but not many, certainly not as many as when you spawn in to attack an airbase.
I've read all the threads, and I cannot fathom how one can play a game that has aircraft, ground vehicles, boats, etc.....and get upset at the prospect of aircraft being able to locate and kill you.  That is part of the game, the main attraction for many, fighting against others and hopefully achieving the kills.  AH has always, since I have played starting back in 2000-01, been a game where you find yourself doing battle against players in all the available vehicles. 
This "I don't want the aircraft to be able to locate me" has been going on for several years, going back to when someone, can't remember his ID, came onto the BBS whining about losing a Tiger or Tiger II to an aircraft.  It grew from there, icon ranges were reduced, some players felt that was the wrong direction, or they had been reduced too much......and they left.
Along comes AH3, with trees galore, which pleases the GV crowd, but places the aircraft guys at a huge disadvantage (yeah, guys in Wirbs or M16's sitting right off the runway, invisible to the planes taking off places them at a unfair disadvantage).  HT implements the GV dar, which mainly lets you know the GV is out there "somewhere"......and the GV diehards have a fit, some threatening to quit or actually doing so. 
I think bustr is trying to fix some of the things in the terrains that have skewed gameplay so out of whack, such as the excessive amount of trees around the bases, trees on base (I hope he is considering doing away with those if HT allows such), and fewer available spots for GV's to snipe at fields with relative impunity.  Lord knows the guy is putting in a ton of time with these terrains, and I for one appreciate his efforts.
The game's not perfect, never has been, never will be.  It's a work in progress, 18 years in the making.  I have fun when I get home after 4 or 5 weeks on jobs and get to log in and play.  If you aren't having fun, take a break, try other games, try no games, whatever works for you.   But don't come on the BBS being drama queens, making accusations that HT doesn't care about you, that he is out to get the GV crowd. 

+1



RANT MODE OFF

[Puma44]

The animosity is almost amusing.  One GV proponent claims they just want a chance to reach their objective undetected.  That seems to counterproductive to what GV dar, and this game in general, is supposed to be about.  That's my opinion at least.  But to each his own.  If that is what he calls fun and he enjoys, I hope he finds a way to achieve that. 
The animosity I've seen in almost every thread on this subject appears to be coming from the GV crowd.  "Bomb****s" is the favorite term to use.  Haven't seen a lot of derogatory comments from the aircraft guys, mainly comments on the GV guys hiding and evading contact.
My very oversimplified suggestion is:  If you don't want the "bomb****s" coming after you and trying to kill you, stay away from the air bases.  Stick to attacking GV bases.  You will still probably see aircraft coming in and trying to kill you, but not many, certainly not as many as when you spawn in to attack an airbase.
I've read all the threads, and I cannot fathom how one can play a game that has aircraft, ground vehicles, boats, etc.....and get upset at the prospect of aircraft being able to locate and kill you.  That is part of the game, the main attraction for many, fighting against others and hopefully achieving the kills.  AH has always, since I have played starting back in 2000-01, been a game where you find yourself doing battle against players in all the available vehicles. 
This "I don't want the aircraft to be able to locate me" has been going on for several years, going back to when someone, can't remember his ID, came onto the BBS whining about losing a Tiger or Tiger II to an aircraft.  It grew from there, icon ranges were reduced, some players felt that was the wrong direction, or they had been reduced too much......and they left.
Along comes AH3, with trees galore, which pleases the GV crowd, but places the aircraft guys at a huge disadvantage (yeah, guys in Wirbs or M16's sitting right off the runway, invisible to the planes taking off places them at a unfair disadvantage).  HT implements the GV dar, which mainly lets you know the GV is out there "somewhere"......and the GV diehards have a fit, some threatening to quit or actually doing so. 
I think bustr is trying to fix some of the things in the terrains that have skewed gameplay so out of whack, such as the excessive amount of trees around the bases, trees on base (I hope he is considering doing away with those if HT allows such), and fewer available spots for GV's to snipe at fields with relative impunity.  Lord knows the guy is putting in a ton of time with these terrains, and I for one appreciate his efforts.
The game's not perfect, never has been, never will be.  It's a work in progress, 18 years in the making.  I have fun when I get home after 4 or 5 weeks on jobs and get to log in and play.  If you aren't having fun, take a break, try other games, try no games, whatever works for you.   But don't come on the BBS being drama queens, making accusations that HT doesn't care about you, that he is out to get the GV crowd. 



RANT MODE OFF

Well said!   .

[Mister Fork]

Well said!   .

+1...well said Eddie.  Well said.

[molybdenum]

The animosity is almost amusing.  One GV proponent claims they just want a chance to reach their objective undetected.  That seems to counterproductive to what GV dar, and this game in general, is supposed to be about.  That's my opinion at least.  But to each his own.  If that is what he calls fun and he enjoys, I hope he finds a way to achieve that. 
The animosity I've seen in almost every thread on this subject appears to be coming from the GV crowd.  "Bomb****s" is the favorite term to use.  Haven't seen a lot of derogatory comments from the aircraft guys, mainly comments on the GV guys hiding and evading contact.
My very oversimplified suggestion is:  If you don't want the "bomb****s" coming after you and trying to kill you, stay away from the air bases.  Stick to attacking GV bases.  You will still probably see aircraft coming in and trying to kill you, but not many, certainly not as many as when you spawn in to attack an airbase.
I've read all the threads, and I cannot fathom how one can play a game that has aircraft, ground vehicles, boats, etc.....and get upset at the prospect of aircraft being able to locate and kill you.  That is part of the game, the main attraction for many, fighting against others and hopefully achieving the kills.  AH has always, since I have played starting back in 2000-01, been a game where you find yourself doing battle against players in all the available vehicles. 
This "I don't want the aircraft to be able to locate me" has been going on for several years, going back to when someone, can't remember his ID, came onto the BBS whining about losing a Tiger or Tiger II to an aircraft.  It grew from there, icon ranges were reduced, some players felt that was the wrong direction, or they had been reduced too much......and they left.
Along comes AH3, with trees galore, which pleases the GV crowd, but places the aircraft guys at a huge disadvantage (yeah, guys in Wirbs or M16's sitting right off the runway, invisible to the planes taking off places them at a unfair disadvantage).  HT implements the GV dar, which mainly lets you know the GV is out there "somewhere"......and the GV diehards have a fit, some threatening to quit or actually doing so. 
I think bustr is trying to fix some of the things in the terrains that have skewed gameplay so out of whack, such as the excessive amount of trees around the bases, trees on base (I hope he is considering doing away with those if HT allows such), and fewer available spots for GV's to snipe at fields with relative impunity.  Lord knows the guy is putting in a ton of time with these terrains, and I for one appreciate his efforts.
The game's not perfect, never has been, never will be.  It's a work in progress, 18 years in the making.  I have fun when I get home after 4 or 5 weeks on jobs and get to log in and play.  If you aren't having fun, take a break, try other games, try no games, whatever works for you.   But don't come on the BBS being drama queens, making accusations that HT doesn't care about you, that he is out to get the GV crowd. 

RANT MODE OFF

All right, I'll give this a go.

1) "The animosity I've seen in almost every thread on this subject appears to be coming from the GV crowd.  "Bomb****s" is the favorite term to use.  Haven't seen a lot of derogatory comments from the aircraft guys, mainly comments on the GV guys hiding and evading contact."

Dundee got form 4ed quickly enough often enough so I don't always know what he said on the subject. But I used the term "bomb****" because that's what they're called in-game. If it's a derogatory term I am honestly unaware and apologize. The derogatory comments on the other side primarily come from devil505--he seems to be gloating that fellow players who play a style different from his are no longer having nearly as much fun. *shrug


2) "Along comes AH3, with trees galore, which pleases the GV crowd, but places the aircraft guys at a huge disadvantage (yeah, guys in Wirbs or M16's sitting right off the runway, invisible to the planes taking off places them at a unfair disadvantage)."

Agreed that the added trees makes it a lot easier for GVs to hide. Not sure how many wirbs or m16s have been sitting off the end of runways cloaked and waiting for uppers, but it hadn't happened any more than in AH2 before I unsubscribed. The base ack usually made that untenable in my limited experience.
I'd be totally fine with trees going away as long as the GV dar did too. It's that disruptive.


3) "HT implements the GV dar, which mainly lets you know the GV is out there "somewhere"......and the GV diehards have a fit, some threatening to quit or actually doing so. "

Agreed that there ought to be a solution for the relative ease with which GVs can hide AH3 vs AH2, but the GV dar just makes GVers hide while it also kills long range or stealthy GV endeavors. GV dar doesn't solve the problem, it just compounds it. Which is why people are quitting because of it.


4) "I think bustr is trying to fix some of the things in the terrains that have skewed gameplay so out of whack, such as the excessive amount of trees around the bases, trees on base (I hope he is considering doing away with those if HT allows such), and fewer available spots for GV's to snipe at fields with relative impunity.  Lord knows the guy is putting in a ton of time with these terrains, and I for one appreciate his efforts."

Even though bustr and I are polar opposites on this topic, I agree with his approach. That's the way to do it; NOT by instituting a disruptive and illogical dar that did not exist in the world this game is simulating and which limits creative game-play.


5) "The game's not perfect, never has been, never will be.. .If you aren't having fun, take a break, try other games, try no games, whatever works for you.   But don't come on the BBS being drama queens, making accusations that HT doesn't care about you, that he is out to get the GV crowd."

I haven't seen anyone say that HT is after the GV crowd (though, again, dundee got 4ed often enough that maybe he did and I missed it). But I continue to post here--and I'm trying to be reasonable and careful in what I say and not be drama queen-ish-- because I hope my voice will be heard. If people don't like what I'm saying they can always skip past my posts.

[Devil 505]

Listen here Moly.

I am giving voice to all the other players in this game who enjoy flying in this game. It's why we came here - to a game called Aces High. We want air combat and the changes going back to 2011 have progressively shifted this game into a GV dominated one. Air combat used to be dynamic when base attacks and town captures were mostly done. The old GV icons meant that the average player could hunt a GV with enough success to encourage further attempts - that was removed with the Storch and GV hunting became a high skill endeavor.

My animosity towards you and your ilk is a direct result to you foolishly believing that the broken MA which allowed you GV'ers to dominate the action for the last 7 years was somehow good. Your arrogance on the subject has forced me to respond to your bullcrap, to expose it for the bullcrap that it is, and to show HTC that the GV Dar does in fact help bring back balance to the MA.

Stop crying about the balance of power being moved towards the center with the GV dar. Stop playing the victim - you created this mess.

[JimmyD3]

The animosity is almost amusing.  One GV proponent claims they just want a chance to reach their objective undetected.  That seems to counterproductive to what GV dar, and this game in general, is supposed to be about.  That's my opinion at least.  But to each his own.  If that is what he calls fun and he enjoys, I hope he finds a way to achieve that. 
The animosity I've seen in almost every thread on this subject appears to be coming from the GV crowd.  "Bomb****s" is the favorite term to use.  Haven't seen a lot of derogatory comments from the aircraft guys, mainly comments on the GV guys hiding and evading contact.
My very oversimplified suggestion is:  If you don't want the "bomb****s" coming after you and trying to kill you, stay away from the air bases.  Stick to attacking GV bases.  You will still probably see aircraft coming in and trying to kill you, but not many, certainly not as many as when you spawn in to attack an airbase.
I've read all the threads, and I cannot fathom how one can play a game that has aircraft, ground vehicles, boats, etc.....and get upset at the prospect of aircraft being able to locate and kill you.  That is part of the game, the main attraction for many, fighting against others and hopefully achieving the kills.  AH has always, since I have played starting back in 2000-01, been a game where you find yourself doing battle against players in all the available vehicles. 
This "I don't want the aircraft to be able to locate me" has been going on for several years, going back to when someone, can't remember his ID, came onto the BBS whining about losing a Tiger or Tiger II to an aircraft.  It grew from there, icon ranges were reduced, some players felt that was the wrong direction, or they had been reduced too much......and they left.
Along comes AH3, with trees galore, which pleases the GV crowd, but places the aircraft guys at a huge disadvantage (yeah, guys in Wirbs or M16's sitting right off the runway, invisible to the planes taking off places them at a unfair disadvantage).  HT implements the GV dar, which mainly lets you know the GV is out there "somewhere"......and the GV diehards have a fit, some threatening to quit or actually doing so. 
I think bustr is trying to fix some of the things in the terrains that have skewed gameplay so out of whack, such as the excessive amount of trees around the bases, trees on base (I hope he is considering doing away with those if HT allows such), and fewer available spots for GV's to snipe at fields with relative impunity.  Lord knows the guy is putting in a ton of time with these terrains, and I for one appreciate his efforts.
The game's not perfect, never has been, never will be.  It's a work in progress, 18 years in the making.  I have fun when I get home after 4 or 5 weeks on jobs and get to log in and play.  If you aren't having fun, take a break, try other games, try no games, whatever works for you.   But don't come on the BBS being drama queens, making accusations that HT doesn't care about you, that he is out to get the GV crowd. 



RANT MODE OFF

Then you have ignored the comments of Bustr, Fugitive, Devil 505, and Waystin.

 I don't need the gv/dar for bomb****ing or gv-ing, if fact I'm am getting more kills with it than with out it.

I've read all the threads, and I cannot fathom how one can play a game that has aircraft, ground vehicles, boats, etc.....and get upset at the prospect of aircraft being able to locate and kill you.  That is part of the game, the main attraction for many, fighting against others and hopefully achieving the kills. 

You may have read the threads but you obviously did not understand what you read. No one is arguing against aircraft being able to locate and kill you, what the issue is about is the added advantage the aircraft now has.

[The Fugitive]

Then you have ignored the comments of Bustr, Fugitive, Devil 505, and Waystin.

 I don't need the gv/dar for bomb****ing or gv-ing, if fact I'm am getting more kills with it than with out it.


You may have read the threads but you obviously did not understand what you read. No one is arguing against aircraft being able to locate and kill you, what the issue is about is the added advantage the aircraft now has.

I dont think Ive had any derogatory remarks about the GV dar. I have pointed out that Hitech has said he has wanted to do this for a long time, and it's main purpose is to make it easier the find fights.

What we had with with the new "Speed Tree" software was much better cover for GVs. Adding the GV dar has leveled that play field again. I doenst give you an arrow to point out exactly where a vehicle is, but it lets you know ones in the area and should you want to hunt one you wouldn't be wasting your time to do so.

Again, the biggest complainers of the new GV dar are those that seem to either want to avoid ALL contact, or those that look to rack up huge kill counts by spawn camping. Both activities have been somewhat curtailed, but they have not been done away with. Everyone talks about those great GV battles at "85". Most of it was spawn camping, but if you didnt move much you were dead. Now the hunt and evasion is more important, but the kills are still there.

[molybdenum]

Listen here Moly.

I am giving voice to all the other players in this game who enjoy flying in this game. It's why we came here - to a game called Aces High. We want air combat and the changes going back to 2011 have progressively shifted this game into a GV dominated one. Air combat used to be dynamic when base attacks and town captures were mostly done. The old GV icons meant that the average player could hunt a GV with enough success to encourage further attempts - that was removed with the Storch and GV hunting became a high skill endeavor.

My animosity towards you and your ilk is a direct result to you foolishly believing that the broken MA which allowed you GV'ers to dominate the action for the last 7 years was somehow good. Your arrogance on the subject has forced me to respond to your bullcrap, to expose it for the bullcrap that it is, and to show HTC that the GV Dar does in fact help bring back balance to the MA.

Stop crying about the balance of power being moved towards the center with the GV dar. Stop playing the victim - you created this mess.

Gosh, don't know where to start and it's near bedtime here, but I'll try to be short and sweet.

1) Kinda arrogant of you to think you are the voice of all flyers (vs Gvers) in this game, don't you think?
2) Nearly all the people who hate the GV dar don't solely GV. I hate it as much as anyone and I was primarily a bomber pilot. You think displeasing people enough to get them to leave the game is a satisfactory outcome, given the dwindling numbers of players due to other reasons? The skies will just be further depopulated and you'll have fewer people to fight, or can't you grasp that concept?
3) Since when is piloting a Storch a "high skill endeavor"? I flew Storches a lot because it required minimal skill and I was comparatively skill-less but wanted to help.
4) The "you Gvers" comment just underscores your lack of grasp of the objections a lot of people have re: Gv dar. As I said before, I was primarily a bomber pilot, not a GVer. My issues with the GV dar are based on how it affects game strategy; although, if i were a GVer, I'd have huge issues with the comparative ease with which bomb****s can now take out GVs before a GV vs GV fight can get started.
5) I didn't create any mess. If there is a mess, the creation of the GV dar made it. If you want a scapegoat, choose cybro.

[Zoney]

Thinking you can have a GV vs GV war without aircraft "interfering" as you called it is about as hopeless as thinking you can go do bomb runs on the strats without fighters "interfering' with you.

I don't see ANY difference between Dar that allows you to find aircraft and Dar that allows you to find GV's.  Either one can be used to find a fight or avoid it.  The Dar around your friendly base for air cons, pinpoints EXACTLY where the aircraft are, even so much as showing the direction they are traveling and when they are turning.  The Dar bar for air cons gives you a general idea of where they are, if not specifically where they are within a given sector.  There is no pinpoint location dar for GV's.  To me, this does seem to be a reasonably fair middle ground.  Not perfect, nothing will be perfect for everyone with such a diversity of opinions.

I think GV'ers who proclaim that they just want a fight with other GV'ers is frankly disingenuous.  If that were the case you guys could form a nice friendly club, open your own custom arena and just go there and duke it out, but you don't.  I think you want to be in the main arena and get your name in lights for everyone to see, including seen by the aircraft pilots who I believe 95% of don't even care you are there, nor do they interact with you in any way.

I find it quite interesting that GV'ers have a derogatory name for aircraft that bomb them, but there really isn't a catch all derogatory name that I see used all the time for the reverse, players who shoot and kill aircraft from ground based guns and vehicles.

I'm sure my opinion has no value unless I agree with yours none-the-less.

Personally, and this is just my wish, I would like to see players that GV, fly aircraft and interact with other aircraft.  I will NEVER understand why so many choose to spend so much time in GV's.  I look at it this way......."YOU" have just graduated from Officer "school".  Your commander says, "Would you like to be a pilot, or drive GV's?".  I just cannot imagine there would be many men who dreamt of driving around on the ground rather than flying, in the sky, in a three dimensional world, instead of two.

Havermyr.  Please come back.  I truly miss playing the game with you.  You were certainly one of the greatest challenges I had when you were intent on making a bomb run, and I was intent on finding, and then intercepting you.  We had fun did we not?  Let the GV thing get worked, you can still play and I know it will get worked out.  things will change, and then change again.  Mistakes will be made, folks will be happier and others won't.  This is a community, come play again.

Havermyr is my friend

[Devil 505]

Gosh, don't know where to start and it's near bedtime here, but I'll try to be short and sweet.

1) Kinda arrogant of you to think you are the voice of all flyers (vs Gvers) in this game, don't you think? No more than Dundee is the voice for all the GV'ers
2) Nearly all the people who hate the GV dar don't solely GV. I hate it as much as anyone and I was primarily a bomber pilot. You think displeasing people enough to get them to leave the game is a satisfactory outcome, given the dwindling numbers of players due to other reasons? The skies will just be further depopulated and you'll have fewer people to fight, or can't you grasp that concept? And why do you think the the numbers were dwindling over the last several years even before AH3 launched. Because the air combat dried up due to the GV surge.
3) Since when is piloting a Storch a "high skill endeavor"? I flew Storches a lot because it required minimal skill and I was comparatively skill-less but wanted to help. I said "hunting GV's" which means having an aircraft that can actually damage a GV. The Storch was only mentioned as the GV icons changed with its introduction
4) The "you Gvers" comment just underscores your lack of grasp of the objections a lot of people have re: Gv dar. As I said before, I was primarily a bomber pilot, not a GVer. My issues with the GV dar are based on how it affects game strategy; although, if i were a GVer, I'd have huge issues with the comparative ease with which bomb****s can now take out GVs before a GV vs GV fight can get started. Given your adamant opposition to the GV dar, I just assumed you were a frequent GV'er. My apologies.
5) I didn't create any mess. If there is a mess, the creation of the GV dar made it. If you want a scapegoat, choose cybro. See the note above. So maybe you personally are not the cause, but the Dundee and the other GV'ers like him most certainly are

[Becinhu]

I’m not really a gv person for the most part. I don’t think the gv dar is the right solution. My one and only issue with the current situation with gvs is the Klingon cloaking devices they now have. You can have a tank sitting in the middle of a field with its engine off and it disappears. I think the icon range needs moved out to 2-2.5 k and ditch the dar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1stpar3]

I’m not really a gv person for the most part. I don’t think the gv dar is the right solution. My one and only issue with the current situation with gvs is the Klingon cloaking devices they now have. You can have a tank sitting in the middle of a field with its engine off and it disappears. I think the icon range needs moved out to 2-2.5 k and ditch the dar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that I could be open to an "Icon Distance" increase. ONLY if the icons kept the same...not sure the term I am looking for here...tendencies? Like Icon is hidden when GV is parked engine off-in trees or brush cover. I really have no dog in this fight as I have no problem with how GV dar might affect the GV part of the game. I can find GVs just as well, with/without the Gv DAR. The ONLY reason I brought my opinion into this thread is this, IF it helps GVers either actually OR by preconception to stay in the game---ITS A PLUS

[Ack-Ack]

Never knew so many women played this game.

[1ijac]

Never knew so many women played this game.

   Everyone likes a good purse fight once in awhile.  (We need an emoji of an arm swinging a purse or two going at it would be even better)


   Look, aspects of the game have changed.  Accept them and improvise.  I believe none of these changes have hurt the game.  I enjoy doing everything the game has to offer and never have a hard time finding an opponent to fight.  If someone wants to sit in a manned gun, vehicle or fly all the time......GREAT!  They are having fun.  If you aren't, then you need to look for a change in what you do in the game.  We can be creatures of habit, myself included.  If you haven't flown bombers much, fighters or spent time in a GV, try them out and learn that aspect of the game.  It's all there to be experienced.  Let's quit pointing fingers at one another saying that someone's gameplay is ruining the game.  An example:  I hate being in a GV and getting a 1000 pound egg dropped on my head, but I love dropping a 1000 pound egg on someone else's head.  It's gratifying, because the whole aim is to kill the enemy.

   one-eye

[BaldEagl]

Personally, and this is just my wish, I would like to see players that GV, fly aircraft and interact with other aircraft.

So you want them to change their game to suit you.

I will NEVER understand why so many choose to spend so much time in GV's.

 
Because it's easy, spawn camping is quick action and it's the closest thing AH offers to a first person shooter?

I look at it this way......."YOU" have just graduated from Officer "school".  Your commander says, "Would you like to be a pilot, or drive GV's?". I just cannot imagine there would be many men who dreamt of driving around on the ground rather than flying, in the sky, in a three dimensional world, instead of two.

I guess that would depend on which branch of the service you joined. 


I'm not picking on you.  That paragraph just stuck with me.

I get the perspectives of both the GV and A2A crowd.  I've done everything the game has to offer in the MA.  A lot!  This argument isn't much different than the land grabbers vs furballers arguments of the past several decades.  In fact, it's pretty much the same.  Each side wants to make their jobs easier.  Each side petitions for change.  Change happens.  The losing side pouts and AH loses a few more players.  And the cycle continues.