Author Topic: We need 2 sides for low player numbers  (Read 8627 times)

Online Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9353
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2018, 06:40:47 AM »
50 players online

3 sides -  you are on one part of the map and the other 2 sides are on other side of the map, that's 30 players you have no contact with, 30 players you cannot fight against

2 sides - all players are in potential contact with each other


"Aw, Mom, I'm never going to need all this boring math stuff."

"You never know, dear.  You just never know."

- oldman

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14005
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2018, 08:17:33 AM »
It's logic and common sense.


50 players online

3 sides -  you are on one part of the map and the other 2 sides are on other side of the map, that's 30 players you have no contact with, 30 players you cannot fight against

2 sides - all players are in potential contact with each other

This is why I advocate it.   You will always be on a country able to face the enemy’s point of attack. 
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Wildin

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2018, 10:19:50 AM »
But what would you name them?

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8054
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2018, 10:28:07 AM »
But what would you name them?

"Winners" and "Losers" because the people who like to roll bases will gravitate to one side while the people who like to defend will gravitate to the other.  Guess which side will have more.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline TWCAxew

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1153
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2018, 10:41:56 AM »
But what would you name them?

Kings and queens :devil
DutchVII / ULDutch
~~2019 KOTH/TOC Champion~~
https://ahevents.net/index.php/events/scenarios/about-scenarios
4 time scenario C.O. ~ As dew appears, As dew Vanishes, Such is my life, Everything in this world, Is but a dream within a dream.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14005
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2018, 11:31:46 AM »
But what would you name them?

Dumbs and Dumberers.
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14005
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2018, 11:32:58 AM »
"Winners" and "Losers" because the people who like to roll bases will gravitate to one side while the people who like to defend will gravitate to the other.  Guess which side will have more.

Wiley.

*PURE* CONJECTURE.


Absolutely based on NOTHING and completely opposite my experience in other games.   The sides will balance out fairly well.

That said, I'll take being outnumbered to being ignored.

”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8054
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2018, 11:35:49 AM »
*PURE* CONJECTURE.


Absolutely based on NOTHING and completely opposite my experience in other games.   The sides will balance out fairly well.

That said, I'll take being outnumbered to being ignored.

How many of your other games have a decent sized contingent of players that do everything within their power to avoid having to deal with a meaningful opposing force?

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14005
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2018, 12:18:56 PM »
How many of your other games have a decent sized contingent of players that do everything within their power to avoid having to deal with a meaningful opposing force?

Wiley.

We don't have a decent-sized contingent of players right now so it's an irrelevant comparison.  However, if you are concerned with people avoiding battle then three sides certainly doesn't fix the problem.  Two sides would sure make a dent in it though.

You have base takers and base defenders in every country, some within the same squadron.   They will filter into the new countries on a roughly equal basis.

If you fix the side switch timer people *WILL* switch for balance.  Seen it all before. 
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8054
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2018, 12:20:43 PM »
We don't have a decent-sized contingent of players right now so it's an irrelevant comparison.  However, if you are concerned with people avoiding battle then three sides certainly doesn't fix the problem.  Two sides would sure make a dent in it though.

You have base takers and base defenders in every country, some within the same squadron.   They will filter into the new countries on a roughly equal basis.

If you fix the side switch timer people *WILL* switch for balance.  Seen it all before.

Ah.  I see your conjecture trumps my conjecture.  Good to know.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Lazerr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4679
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2018, 12:25:00 PM »
Im fine with slaughtering a horde of HE111's and 110's because ENY is too high.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14005
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2018, 12:35:44 PM »
Ah.  I see your conjecture trumps my conjecture.  Good to know.

Wiley.

Again, intelligence guided by experience and common sense.

You think squadrons will break up along base take/base defense lines?    :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Im fine with slaughtering a horde of HE111's and 110's because ENY is too high.

I'll be there with you.    :salute :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2018, 02:30:01 PM »
You have a more likely reality that the same people sitting in manned guns and wirbles with the current three country scenario will do so even more. They are not paying Hitech to be your fodder, they just want to avoid you and take bases. Running into you occasionally is the cost of doing business. Two sides and a quicker side switch change will make the cost of doing business to high for them. Two sides and a faster side switch will have them running into you more often than it will be worth their $14.95. Why do you think they want to sneak around and take bases away from active combat hot zones?

All of these ideas are being thrown out there without admitting you don't care if they quit which cuts into Hitech's bottom line. You then have no guarantee they will be replaced while all of you won't admit most average Joe customers play games like these for some fun and a little bit of action. Not for white knuckle all night boom, boom ACM fixes, look at the numbers playing WT easy mode. Once long ago our arena was filled with mostly average Joe players that accepted running into the ACM ADD crowd "once in a while" as the cost of doing business.

Why aren't you ACM two country people all living in the AVA if that is what all the real deal players want? The AvA CMs have begged you guys for a decade to make their arena your home. And they were willing to setup scenarios for you that Hitech won't in the MA. Hitech gave you guys a two country war arena all for yourselves.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14005
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2018, 02:33:19 PM »
You...

[Y]our fodder...you...you...you...

Why do you think...?

[W]ithout admitting you don't care... You then...while all of you won't admit...

Why aren't you...?

...[Y]ou guys...your.

[Y]ou...   [Y]ou guys...yourselves.


More of this again?    Come on now...

SMH.

Meanwhile, hows that status quo working out for YOU?  (Whisper: They’re already quitting--and new players aren't staying.)   :bolt:

This is a COMBAT game.   It is losing subscribers because people will not fight.  Seems to me if YOU and YOURS want to take bases unopposed you can do it offline or in a custom non-combat arena.   That at least makes more sense than asking people in an arena called MELEE to expect the opposite.

Melee me·lee
ˈmāˌlā,māˈlā
noun
a confused fight, skirmish, or scuffle.


PS - 2-Sided AvA NOT EQUAL to 2-Sided MA  :old:
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 03:53:03 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: We need 2 sides for low player numbers
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2018, 06:00:48 PM »
You don't observe them to build terrains for them, the average Joe player does not see this as a combat game. They see it as playing at something resembling combat and capture the flag is the most they want to expend effort at for their $14.95. You want to harvest them becasue they are easy kills while you take the risk of occasionally running into better ACM players than yourself as the cost of doing business. Most of this is ACM players want to harvest the average players becasue it's a quick win and makes for a feel good when the kills landed message goes out. If you guys wanted to go at it all night against other ACM players hard core, you would ditch the MA and go at it in the DA or a custom arena. Even the AvA but, you don't. You complain at Hitech that he has to come up with some way to force the average players to let you harvest them and your only evidence is they are killing the game becasue they won't play the game your way.

You or some version of you has been screeching exactly this at Hitech since the beginning of this game. The average players have been leaving since 2009 when NOE was taken away becasue they were here to play capture the flag in WW2 toys, not air samurai in WW2 toys. They don't want to fight you, they want to capture your feilds. Before 2009 we just got good at determining where an NOE would popup and go whack them becasue that was the game. With 400 players there were always ACM players running around above dar to keep the air samurai occupied so both groups coexisted doing their own thing. You will not force them to become air samurai, they will just cancel their subscriptions and leave. And lately that has looked like what the experiments were trying to see if it was possible to force them to do. Because force is the only way to get them into situations they are not paying to be in. NOE is not force, it is accepting what that average customer type is really paying $14.95 to accomplish in this game which makes them happy.

If Hitech gives them back NOE at this late date, chances are people will grief them anyway by ratting them out with PM's, 3rd party VOX, or having a laptop with a two week account to watch for NOE missions logged into other countries. You will still be at this impasse, they are not paying $14.95 to play air samurai so you will still not get them into the air so you can harvest them. So far since 2009 everyone's solutions to the average player not wanting to play air samurai has been for Hitech to force them no matter what they want in this game for their $14.95.

Lets ask Hitech to test this.

Hitech,

Please turn off the ability to capture map rooms for 7 days as a test in the MA. (at this point radar settings won't matter.)
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.