F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag

[Puma44]

So, we proceeded to climb to our cruise altitude of 28,000 feet, for the trip across the Atlantic.  This was the optimum altitude the KC-10s could cruise for the distance to be flown.  On the other hand, it was higher than F-4s normally refueled.  Optimum altitude for the Rhinos was normally in the 20-24,000 ft range.  Since we were loaded to the gills with all sorts of junk the maintenance guys could hang on the jets, 28,000 was definitely a challenge while hanging on the boom.

In addition to the altitude challenge, there were towering cumulus along the route at our altitude.  The towers were scattered but, seemed to show up about the time it was my turn to hook up with the tanker.  This added turbulence to a less than ideal performance state on the boom. Of course, the tanker guys would just drive through the tops vs taking a slight deviation around them.  So, plugging into the boom was doable but, staying there was another thing.  As our ride took on fuel there was a point that both throttles had to be against the MIL stops.  The continuing increase in fuel weight soon made MIL a losing proposition.  To maintain the middle of the “green apple” on the boom, modulating in and out of min burner on one engine was required.  This created an asymmetrical situation requiring cross controls to prevent a brute force disconnect from the boom.  Then as the fuel load increased even more, one burner had to be left in min and the other modulated in and out of min burner. This was a taxing event combined with the tower CUs and higher altitude.  We continued this for the next 4-5 hours.

F-4E on the KC-10 boom.

Later after coming off the boom and settling into position on the tanker, I realized daybreak was in progress.  The sky and everything below us was a hazy grey with no discernible horizon.   I asked my backseater if we were over the ocean.  He answered “Yeah, for the last three hours”.

We still had nearly eight hours to go and I was exhausted already.

And the rest of the story later.

[Vraciu]

How much movement do you have before you'll break the contact?

[Puma44]

How much movement do you have before you'll break the contact?

Don’t recall ever hearing an exact number.  The are director lights on the belly of the tanker showing UP/DWN and FWD/AFT.  When positioned perfectly, there are a set of green Captain’s Bar's as they are called. Also, on the boon there are colored bands with a green circle in the middle.  This is referred to as the “Green Apple”.  The goal is to have the Apple split in half by the boom shroud.  With this accomplished and both Captains Bars illuminated, a perfect position is obtained.  To get a brute force disconnect one would have to allow one or more of the three positioning indicators to go into a red band.  This didn’t happen very often.  Most of the time a brute force disconnect was the result of turbulence, or ham fists.  In my F-106 unit, we had a Squadron CC who come back from refueling sorties with 3-4 feet of the boom stuck in his AR receptacle, THREE TIMES.  Everyone scrambled to get off the AR schedule when he was on.

I found the Six a much more solid AR platform than the Phantom.  With the flying stabilator, the Phantom was naturally pitch sensitive.

[Vraciu]

Awesome stuff. 

What would losing an engine on a burner takeoff  be like?   I realize the engines are near the centerline but that's one heck of a lot of differential thrust.   Would it be akin to how the 737 behaves or much worse?


That pitch sensitivity has been demonstrated a few times by the Navy coming off the catapult.  One inch too far aft and it was a high AOA rudder dance.   One intrepid aviator got a new callsign that way.   The Admiral was on the bridge when a someone did that in a B and said, "I can see that guy's boots."   Yep. You guessed it.  Boots.  (Paul Gilchrist wrote about that one.)

You should write a book.   Seriously.  It would be a fun read. 

[Puma44]

Awesome stuff. 

What would losing an engine on a burner takeoff  be like?   I realize the engines are near the centerline but that's one heck of a lot of differential thrust.   Would it be akin to how the 737 behaves or much worse?


That pitch sensitivity has been demonstrated a few times by the Navy coming off the catapult.  One inch too far aft and it was a high AOA rudder dance.   One guy got a new callsign that way.   The Admiral was on the bridge when a guy did that in a B and said, "I can see that guy's boots."   Yep. You guessed it.  Boots.  (Paul Gilchrist wrote about that one.)

You should write a book.   Seriously.  It would be a fun read. 

I’ve never experienced a failure at all, let alone on takeoff.  We practiced and were evaluated on single engine approaches, etc.  The jet was very solid on one engine and wasn’t much of a concern for the most part.  At full combat load on takeoff, it might have been a bit of an issue but, that’s were the SALVO ALL selector would come in handy.

No comparison at all to the 737.  Similar to the T-38 centerline thrust rating issued after pilot training for those of us who did the MILCOMP written test.  I later got a real multiengine rating in a 310.

[Mister Fork]

[Puma44]

(Image removed from quote.)

 

[Puma44]

A rare view from the reciever’s end.  Probably an F-15E. 

Squadron CC’s jet from my unit at Minot, ND.

[1stpar3]

  I could read this sort of stuff ALL NIGHT    Too good NOT TO SHARE...you are my HERO,sir! That was ALL I EVER wanted to do..had the grades, had the drive...but BS took over. Damn FUTBAL...blew out both knees. Wasnt a total loss...I will always have Top Gun and Iron Eagle,plus the assorted Documentaries and Books...so I dealt with it 

[Puma44]

I could read this sort of stuff ALL NIGHT    Too good NOT TO SHARE...you are my HERO,sir! That was ALL I EVER wanted to do..had the grades, had the drive...but BS took over. Damn FUTBAL...blew out both knees. Wasnt a total loss...I will always have Top Gun and Iron Eagle,plus the assorted Documentaries and Books...so I dealt with it 

Glad you enjoy it.  No hero here.  Just another grain of sand in an immense effort to keep our freedom and way of life safe.    .....and so very privileged to fly some really cool jets along the way.

[colmbo]

This created an asymmetrical situation requiring cross controls to prevent a brute force disconnect from the boom.

My F-4 buddy told me of a night AR where they were flying through a slanted layer of clouds. Dave said his back seater asked if he "was okay" and Dave realized he had the jet flying sideways as he fought the vertigo induced by the odd visual cues.

[Puma44]

My F-4 buddy told me of a night AR where they were flying through a slanted layer of clouds. Dave said his back seater asked if he "was okay" and Dave realized he had the jet flying sideways as he fought the vertigo induced by the odd visual cues.

My first assignment out of UPT was the venerable Lockheed Racer, more commonly known as the T-33 Shooting Star.  Crews referred to it as the stretch F-80. 

The T-33s were used by ADCOM as interceptor target support, proficiency flying for headquarters peuks, and various mission support activities (some really interesting stories here).

One crisp, clear Southern California winter night we were flying a target mission out of Pt Magu.  Pretty simple.  Fly west over the Pacific for about 350 miles, turn around, fly east to land, and harass the interceptors along the way with our under wing chaff and ecm pods.  We were on the east bound leg on this moonless, pitch dark night when I noticed my partner in the front seat was slowly banking to the right.  I asked what he was doing and he replied “nothing” and snapped back on the proper heading.  After a few minutes it started happening again.  I took a closer look out front to see a series of boat and drill rig lights that formed an artificial horizon line.  My front seater was subconsciously lining up with this fake horizon.  He eventually went to pure instrument flying until the coastline came into view.

Another time on a similar mission out of Elgin AFB, Fl, we were to fly due south checking frequency reception over the Gulf for ATC.  On departure out of Elgin we encountered scattered towering cumulus clouds.  As we climbed, the cloud layers thickened along with intermittent lightening.  Did I mention that it was monsoon season?  I was again in the rear cockpit this leg, enjoying the light show. The lucky dude up front was having a tough time even flying on instruments due to the lightening and turbulence. He admitted to being extremely spatially disoriented.  So, I pulled the much hated instrument flying hood from its storage behind my seat, over my head, and attached it to the top of my instrument panel, completely blocking the light show from view.  I flew the rest of the sortie under the beloved instrument hood.  My bud enjoyed about three hours of disorienting, psychedelic light show.  On our last frequency with ATC on the southbound leg started to get scratchy and broken.  The controller told us that when he quit answering us to fly south another ten minutes, then turn around and head back.  Sure was a dark, nasty night.

[colmbo]

While working on my commercial ticket I did a dual night cross-country from Anchorage to Talkeetna and back.  The forecast called for some snow showers but the CFI and I didn't feel the risk was bad.  Sound familiar?   As we approached Talkeetna the snow increased so it was a quick bank the mains on the ground for landing credit and get pointed back toward Anchorage. 

Did I mention this was in a mighty Cessna 152 with a single Nav/Com radio?

As we headed back south the snow intensity increased to the point where I don't believe we were any longer legal VFR.  From our altitude of 1500' we had about a 2 mile circle on the ground we could see detail in.  I was tracking outbound from the Big Lake VOR on a radial that would put me in position to find the airport and basically flying instruments while peeking outside for hints of where we were.  As we got closer to town there were more lights on the ground, mostly the yellowish sodium yard lights.  As I'm looking out I see lights moving across our nose from left to right.  I think I'm seeing a Herc in the pattern at Elmendorf and even call the traffic to the CFI.  About then I got that funny feeling you sometimes get.  I took a good look at the instruments and realized I was in about a 60-70 degree left bank, the nose had dropped 10 degrees or so and we'd turned nearly 90 degrees.

The "Herc landing lights" were actually a couple of those sodium yard lights.  I got wings level, stopped the descent and turned back to my original heading.  About then the CFI became aware that something was up and started to talk.  I said to him "shutup, I'm flying the airplane!".   A mile or so later the city lights came into view, the scary went away and we landed in about 10 inches of fresh, new snow which makes for great arrestor gear.

It was a great lesson to have entered a situation that has killed so many. 

[Puma44]

Yikes!  A close one.  Good thing you were in the Mighty 152. 

[1stpar3]

Reading these last couple of posts....I wonder if this is the same thing that causes accidents due to rubber necking? Think you know what I mean? Just more natural to steer to where you are looking. It just struck me funny,imagining my Dad flying. Oh look, a Deer...GRRRRR(the rough patch of road edge on highway)