Author Topic: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag  (Read 11450 times)

Offline Puma44

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2018, 09:33:36 AM »
Reading these last couple of posts....I wonder if this is the same thing that causes accidents due to rubber necking? Think you know what I mean? :uhoh Just more natural to steer to where you are looking. It just struck me funny,imagining my Dad flying. Oh look, a Deer...GRRRRR(the rough patch of road edge on highway) :rofl

In an airplane, the inner ear and brain pan are dealing with three dimensions vs two while driving.  More than likely, drivers are the victims of innattention or distraction.



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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2018, 11:05:29 AM »
In an airplane, the inner ear and brain pan are dealing with three dimensions vs two while driving.  More than likely, drivers are the victims of innattention or distraction.
...why do most of us find flying easier than driving then? :D
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Offline Puma44

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2018, 11:56:46 AM »
...why do most of us find flying easier than driving then? :D

For me, it’s a whole lot less stressful and much less risk of getting killed, outside the game, that is.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 12:36:18 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2018, 12:01:20 PM »
...why do most of us find flying easier than driving then? :D

Because usually the easiest thing to hit is the ground.   :D
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Offline Puma44

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2018, 12:37:23 PM »
True.  The ground pretty much always wins.



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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2018, 12:43:46 PM »
A good friend of mine, former CF-18 pilot, once told me the wise pilots wisdom statement. "I'd rather be down on the ground wishing I was flying, than flying wishing I was down on the ground."

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Offline colmbo

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2018, 12:45:09 PM »
My first assignment out of UPT was the venerable Lockheed Racer, more commonly known as the T-33 Shooting Star. 

In the early 70s they were using T-33s here in Alaska for some tactical missions such as dropping off recon film.  They were also equipped with sensors and would harass the modern tactical aircraft.  Very common to see a T-33 in the pattern back then.  Sadly on spun in on the turn to base one day with the loss of the crew.
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Offline colmbo

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2018, 12:54:46 PM »
A good friend of mine, former CF-18 pilot, once told me the wise pilots wisdom statement. "I'd rather be down on the ground wishing I was flying, than flying wishing I was down on the ground."

A very true statement for sure.  One day at the drop zone I called off flying due to the turbulent wind. Our runway was set in a narrow strip between tall trees and the rotors as you went below the tree tops could be quite challenging.  One of the jumpers was griping quite a bit about the "wasted blue sky".  After an hour or so the winds had eased some and I figured I could launch and recover without dying so called for the load.  Mr Grump was sitting up next to me on the floor facing aft.  I wore a flight suit when hauling jumpers, when I got to the end of the runway I stopped to zip everything up and pulled on my gloves.  Grumpy asked why and I replied "cuz it's still windy".  As we climbed through the rotor zone we got rolled over hard (things hadn't calmed quite as much as I thought) I had to do a little pilot stuff to avoid the trees and as we got into smooth air I looked over to Grumpy and said "aren't we glad we're flying?".  From that day onward I would often here Grumpy telling jumpers that if Dale says we shouldn't be jumping just listen to him.  :)
Columbo

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Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2018, 01:50:36 PM »
LOL!  Nice one.

Did you hear the story about the kid who was a student pilot and got ramp checked after dropping a load of jumpers.   The Fed was gonna' violate the guy until he explained that the last guy to jump was his CFI.

 :rofl
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Offline 1stpar3

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2018, 02:40:54 PM »
In an airplane, the inner ear and brain pan are dealing with three dimensions vs two while driving.  More than likely, drivers are the victims of innattention or distraction.
Good point :aok Ok, then. It would be more like Dad driving in a down pour(talking about WIPERS ALL ON, ponding on road and 4 lanes of traffic(2 lanes under construction :eek:). Dad, was the type of driver that would hold off applying the breaks as long as he could, waiting to see if he would ACTUALLY have to stop or slow down...usually leading to a hard application of the brakes. Hold on to anything loose behind you :furious Now, in a down pour, with his NON defensive driving skills AND his propensity to drive TOO where he is looking..Pretty much as close as this could come to FLYING by Instruments :uhoh  I was gritting my teeth so hard...Mashed potatoes and Biscuits hurt to chew for 3 days!  :rofl 
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Offline Puma44

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2018, 04:46:31 PM »
In the early 70s they were using T-33s here in Alaska for some tactical missions such as dropping off recon film.  They were also equipped with sensors and would harass the modern tactical aircraft.  Very common to see a T-33 in the pattern back then.  Sadly on spun in on the turn to base one day with the loss of the crew.

That is sad.  Too bad, because the T Bird is such and honest airplane.  But, like any airplane, it’ll kill ya just as dead.  The year before I went through T bird school at Tyndall, a couple of IPs took one out for a weekend cross country.  One of the guy’s family was having a big family reunion the same weekend.  On the cross country, they cancelled IFR, went VFR and descended down to the reunion loacation for a flyby.  On the first pass the T bird pitched up and started an aileron roll.  About half way through the nose buried and they crashed in front of the family reunion.  The T-33 Dash 1 had a warning something to the effect of not doing rolling maneuvers with fuel in the tip tanks because the nose would pitch down.

In ground school, instructors used this example to emphasize the Dash 1 WARNING.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 06:12:58 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2018, 04:57:47 PM »
Don Gentile killed himself in a T-bird.   Ran out of gas—they think due to not being familiar with the fuel system or something.   :(
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2018, 09:58:25 PM »
On the cross country, they cancelled IFR, went VFR and descended down to the reunion loacation for a flyby.  On the first pass the T bird pitched up and started an aileron roll.  About half way through the nose buried and they crashed in front of the family reunion. 

I'm reminded of Creighton Collins' "The Dangers of the Air," as contained in Langewiesche's classic "Stick and Rudder" (1944 version, for those who have it!  Pages 328-329):

In many of these cases [of fatal accidents] there is an obvious element of exhibitionism.  This element is so strong that the layman is likely to decide that pilots are a curious breed, one with a marked deficiency in common sense, for their fatal accidents seldom occur while the airplane is being put to any normal use.

From the pilot's standpoint, of course, it doesn't look that way.  He thinks only in terms of flying technique.  After all, isn't it often difficult to get a clean, sharp stall and a spin?  Isn't it almost inconceivable that anyone could ever miss the pronounced warnings which every airplane gives in too slow flight?  He very definitely does not see exhibitionism as a major hazard in flying, nor does he find it easy to believe the real story on flying hazards even after he is told.  Why should it be easy for him to believe?  He is already a pilot, well trained and with a Certificate of Competency.  But that bears only on convention.  Neither his textbooks nor his training have mentioned or brought out in practice the facts of life as to flying hazards, that is, as to what they really are, that is, as to the things that he is going to have to understand and guard against if he is to fly safely where innumerable others out of his same mold have not.

Flying releases something almost uncontrollable in the average pilot.  Learning to fly the prescribed patterns in training, learning to make precision approaches and landings, learning coordination of stick and rudder in every detail, learning accuracy and to be ever the master of the machine - well and good; but, once on his own, there surges within a pilot a powerful impulse to break the bonds of every restraint that has followed him into the free air.  He wants to throw away the music and to play, play as it has never been done before.  He wants to give vent to all the suppressed feelings of his innermost self.  That is his reaction to this new medium of expression in speed and infinite freedom of motion.

And that is why you soon find him, by the score, flying over to dive at and zoom above his home and spinning in; that is why you find him trying to climb as steeply as possible after a take-off and spinning in; that is why you find him pulling up into graceful climbing turns and spinning in; that is why you find him anxious to give his passengers a little thrill, a little taste of the wonders of free motion; that is why you find him circling low over his friends to wave and spinning in.  Little does he realize that these situations bring on conditions of flight outside the pattern of what his training maneuvers have taught him.  He does not know how many people mush into treetops in the pull-out from their dives, how many of them collide with wires, chimneys, trees, radio towers, guy wires, and countless other things they did not see in time in their low flying.  He doesn't know how likely he is to kill that first rider to whom he is only trying to be a generous host.  And above all, he hasn't the vaguest idea that in nearly 70 per cent of fatal accidents the airplane spun out of a turn, hit the ground with the motor running normally.

- oldman

Offline Vraciu

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Offline Puma44

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Re: F-4E Beatin’ Feet at Maple Flag
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2018, 10:46:45 PM »
So, with onset of daylight and many hours flying formation and ARs ahead of us, fatigue was building.  Several hours of formation flying and AR in the weather had taken its toll.  We were each issued go pills for the flight and stop pills for after landing.  By now, I had taken all of my go pills and drank most of the liquids stashed in my nest.

As the hours ticked by, I became more and more dog tired.  My trusty WSO hadn’t taken any of his go pills and offered them up.  Who was I to say no to such a generous offer? Once the sun was up in the east and out of our eyes the flying became somewhat more relaxed.  The go pills were working well by now.

About half way across the Atlantic, two additional KC-10s accomplished an AR rendezvous with our gaggle to refuel our tankers.  We moved our two 4 ships out a bit and let the big rigs go at it.  That was quite an impressive sight.  Four behemoths in close formation passing gas.  Kind of like mating elephants; a big deal at high altitude.

With ten ARs behind us, we flew through  the Straits of Gibraltor and across the Mediterranean in preparation for the eleventh and final AR before descending for approach and landing at Cairo West Air Base, Egypt.  By now, I was very tired and dehydrated despite drinking all the liquids I carried and most of what my pitter offered up, and I now had the enormous need to pee.  It was time to break out the piddle pack(s).  These things were robust plastic bags with an absorbent sponge inside and a secure tie wrap at the business end.  As the internal pressure was steadily building, I was debating with myself if I would be able to make the last hour plus or not.  It was time to pull the trigger.  First, the PP was unrolled and laid on one of the side consoles.  Actually, two of them were placed in deployment mode.  Next, the seat safety pin was installed.  Then, the lap belly and shoulder harnesses were disconnected.  Next, the G suit had to be repositioned so, the front full length flight suit zipper could be retracted upwards.  You see were this is going don’t ya? 

Well, while I’m doing all this, I obviously needed both hands for this complex operation.  So, I gave the perfectly trimmed flight controls to my WSO.  I recommended he hold the stick gently with one hand and steady his elbow on the knee to eliminate the Rhino’s characteristic pitch sensitivity.  It worked for a few seconds and then a very slight PIO began. I reminded him to hold the stick gently and brace on his knee.  The PIO kept getting more and more pronounced as we flew along side the tanker and the rest of our four ship started cycling on the tanker for the last time.  When I finally got “plugged in” to the PP the flow just wasn’t happening due to 11+ hours being cramped, folded, pinched, etc.  And, it was now our turn on the boom. 

So, I left the PP hanging in position while we established the pre contact position behind the boom.  Once stabilized, the boomer cleared us to the contact position.  AR is basically formation flying behind a bigger aircraft and requires a certain amount of concentrated attention.  When cleared to the contact position it was a matter of driving straight at the end of the boom so that it was coming to the center of the windscreen.  A few feet from contacting the windshield, the boomer would fly the boom around and above the canopy and plug into the refueling receptacle on top of the fuselage behind the rear cockpit.  When positive contact was made, a CONTACT light would illuminate on the front canopy bow.  Then, it was just a matter of splItting the apple until the boomer confirmed the planned offload was complete.  As I was concentrating on this process, a heavy, warm flow started.  It felt so good that I subconsciously moaned over the intercom.  My backseater was worried about what was wrong with the jet.  I advised that golden flow was in progress.  His response, “While we’re refueling?!”  Yep!  While the jet was on-loading, I was off loading.  We completed our last AR, disconnected, and smoothly dropped down and back to clear the boom.  We then re-established our position on the tanker’s wing for the short portion of the remaining distance to go and offloaded a second PP.  Somewhere under an hour to go and it would be nap time.  The rest was going to be easy.  Yeah, right!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 10:55:23 PM by Puma44 »



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